Panache Answers the "Big Kilt Questions"

[lukeyrobertson]

Well in fact someone did aske me if I was Irish while wearing my army green Rkilt. She knew that Irish kilts include solid colours. It was a wonderful kilt conversation in the middle of a book store. I thought it was fairly astute and brave of her to ask. She has just come back from a tour of Ireland and with that, some new awareness. Cool.

[sailortats]

Good advice, thanks for sharing

[McElmurry]

And as far as the Irish/Scottish question goes, is easy to know who is what... simply ask them there name and if it starts with "Mc" then he is obviously a Scot.. If his name starts with an "O" then he must be Irish.

Not necessarily. Mc is simply the abbreviation for Mac which is the modern universal English spelling for "son of" in both Scots Gaelic and Irish Gaeilge.

Many surnames developed simultaneously in Ireland and Scotland so the Mc prefix is not much help when attempting to determine origin of name. Although it does narrow it down to a region that spoke some form of Gaelic/Gaeilge.

[Dale Seago]

Not necessarily. Mc is simply the abbreviation for Mac which is the modern universal English spelling for "son of" in both Scots Gaelic and Irish Gaeilge.

Many surnames developed simultaneously in Ireland and Scotland so the Mc prefix is not much help when attempting to determine origin of name. Although it does narrow it down to a region that spoke some form of Gaelic/Gaeilge.

***

[be da veva]

And as far as the Irish/Scottish question goes, is easy to know who is what... simply ask them there name and if it starts with "Mc" then he is obviously a Scot.. If his name starts with an "O" then he must be Irish.

Actually I've been told that Mc is irish and Mac is scottish. And to make matters worse, every Mc someone I met was irish every Mac somebodyelse was scot.... Hence the irish being calles Mics or Mikeys in a derogotary (sp?) way...

[Geoff Withnell]

Actually, uniformity in spelling is a relatively recent invention. I am told Shakespeare spelled his name over 2 dozen different ways at various times. Add in the rather sketchy level of literacy of the masses in most historical times, and minor differences in spelling become essentially useless for distinguishing between such closely related groups. Heck, my great grandfather, from letters I have seen, sometimes spelled our family name Whithnell, and sometimes Withnel.

Actually I've been told that Mc is irish and Mac is scottish. And to make matters worse, every Mc someone I met was irish every Mac somebodyelse was scot.... Hence the irish being calles Mics or Mikeys in a derogotary (sp?) way...

[guardsman]

I still think cream hose can set of a tartan nicely with the flashes (I own green,black,blue and of course off white)Excellent thread

[guardsman]

quite right on spellings, if you could read a hundred year ago that was quite somthing, normally the census man wrote your name,hence different spellings at different times(i.e. different census chap!!!)

[McElmurry]

quite right on spellings, if you could read a hundred year ago that was quite somthing, normally the census man wrote your name,hence different spellings at different times(i.e. different census chap!!!)

Looking at census forms it appears there was some effort over time to standardize the spelling of McElmurry in the USA during the period leading up to the US civil war. I have wondered if the census takers were given some guidance in such matters or if all the kin got together and agreed a spelling. I have seen similar trends with other names as well.

[Mike_Oettle]

It seems to me that Sevenoaks was being ironic with his remark about Mc and O’ – see further what he says about denim being French and silk, Asian.
But be da veva is off the mark when he derives Mick from Mc/Mac. The usage of calling Irishmen Micks originates in the common occurrence of the name Michael (my own name, too) among the Irish.
This does not mean the name is exclusively Irish, either. Since it is the name of an archangel, there are forms of it to be found wherever there are Christians (and Jews).
I was named for a family friend who was of English, Scottish and Boer descent, and primarily English-speaking. An 18th-century German ancestor of mine was coincidentally also Michael (different pronunciation).
And bear in mind that the largest ship built and operated by the Scottish navy was called the Great Michael. It was the largest ship in Europe at the time.
Regards,
Mike