POLL-Do you want this tartan?

**Father Bill** · 26th December 11, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by MeghanWalker

Biblemonkey,

I think that, as long as this tartan has this special religious value for you, then it has done its job whether others agree with its colors, design, etc. Even if it is a personal tartan, religion itself is personal and is a personal relationship with God, so if you make a tartan and it represents your faith, then the job was done and was successful. Whether anyone else wants to wear it too will be up to others.

I think, regardless, if you wear it and feel good in it and feel proud to tell others that the tartan represents your creativity in representing your path with God, then the job was successful.

One of the most insightful, thoughtful, and kind answers you're likely to get! *** Meghan!

**Bugbear** · 26th December 11, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by MeghanWalker

Biblemonkey,

I think that, as long as this tartan has this special religious value for you, then it has done its job whether others agree with its colors, design, etc. Even if it is a personal tartan, religion itself is personal and is a personal relationship with God, so if you make a tartan and it represents your faith, then the job was done and was successful. Whether anyone else wants to wear it too will be up to others.

I think, regardless, if you wear it and feel good in it and feel proud to tell others that the tartan represents your creativity in representing your path with God, then the job was successful.

That sounds good.

**mookien** · 26th December 11, 11:01 AM

Meghan: Well put. Your comment strikes closer to how I feel about the proposed tartan than any other written, ... including my own.

Again, I think the most difficult part of the design process will be choosing an appropriate name - one that pleases the commissioners and one that is acceptable to the SRT. But, if Matt does the design, as I infer from the OP, then I suspect he will help us come up with a number of appropriate suggestions.

John

**piperdbh** · 26th December 11, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

But Richard, what would you wear on Pentecost or Palm Sunday?

Red hose! Red hose!

**AFS1970** · 28th December 11, 12:59 PM

This discussion has been great and I am glad to see that it has not devolved into something it should not be, However the number of folks that voted no and then clarified that with I voted no because I am not a Christian is giving a false negative to the poll results. It is much like my voting in a poll on buying tartan in a clan tartan that I am not associated with and then saying I voted no because I am not a member of the clan and wouldn't wear their tartan.

To quote Doctor Who on this one, Staggering, Pointless but Staggering.

What we do know is that there is at least some interest in this tartan and in the process of developing it. So lets get to it. In the end, there will probably have been many revision from whatever the first attempt is. Perhaps some who were waiting to see what comes of it will be more interested with some visuals.

As for the name, like I said I have no problem with it being called the Christian tartan, however if we must call it something else simply because someone out there is waiting to pounce on it and say they are a Christian and did not approve this tartan then let us call it something else. The last thing we need is another tool of divisiveness.

As for approval by the various denominations, well here is an idea if that is even desirous. Once we have a tartan that we are happy with, and once it is produced, then perhaps samples or pictures could be sent with all the relevant documentation to various bodies asking if they would consider approving or designating it as an official or even a recognized tartan. While this may seem like a backwards process to some, given that the idea is already proposed it is possibly the only direction such a process can take at this point.

**Bugbear** · 28th December 11, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by AFS1970

This discussion has been great and I am glad to see that it has not devolved into something it should not be, However the number of folks that voted no and then clarified that with I voted no because I am not a Christian is giving a false negative to the poll results. It is much like my voting in a poll on buying tartan in a clan tartan that I am not associated with and then saying I voted no because I am not a member of the clan and wouldn't wear their tartan.

To quote Doctor Who on this one, Staggering, Pointless but Staggering. ...

For the record, I have abstained from voting; though the Quaker and SBC parts of me from my background have mixed feelings about all of this, extending into the Clergy tartan discussion from which it sprang.
I posted to agree with an expressed sentiment; beyond that, it is probably none of my business.
Good luck to the OP et al.

**artificer** · 28th December 11, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by AFS1970

However the number of folks that voted no and then clarified that with I voted no because I am not a Christian is giving a false negative to the poll results. It is much like my voting in a poll on buying tartan in a clan tartan that I am not associated with and then saying I voted no because I am not a member of the clan and wouldn't wear their tartan.

I disagree completely. By offering a "No Thanks" option in the poll, rather than just saying "Who is interested in this project" the OP has opened the door to refusal. Refusal without a reason for such would skew results. The poll wasn't a "poll of Christians on X-Marks" it was an open poll- so ALL negative responses are valid, not just those of Christian X-markers. A clan voting on a CLAN tartan wouldn't give two figs what outsiders thought of it's choices- so you would never be offered an option to vote.

Honestly, I'm wondering why there IS a poll if feedback (positive or negative) wasn't desired.

If the OP wants to make his tartan, swell. If he wants others to buy in, great. He wanted a vote up or down for those who'd buy in- he got it.

Even if the percentage of positive votes is small, if there are enough interested parties to fund it's creation he's free to go ahead- he isn't bound by the "majority vote".

Why do you (AFS1970, not the OP) have a problem with the result of the poll and it's accompanying feedback?

ith:

**Detroitpete** · 28th December 11, 04:13 PM

Yes, this does seem like a solution in search of a problem; a bit of a backward attempt to get a large group of people to somehow 'sign off' on this as some type of 'official' tartan. In my opinion this is absolutely the wrong way to go about this. The overwhelming number of votes to the negative are but one bit of evidence.

I'm one of those terrible people who added to the plethora of tartans. I created a design, sought input from a kiltmaker, had the tartan created, had the tartan registered and had a kilt made from said tartan.

Why doesn't the OP just do the same here?

**Chas** · 28th December 11, 04:46 PM

We like to think that because we call ourselves X MARKS, it sounds like EXPERTS. We are the ones who know, because we are the ones with the knowledge. We are the biggest and therefore the best. What we do is vastly important and what others do is of no importance what so ever.

Except...

That there are others out there who may, or may not, have heard of us and may, or may not, care for what we think or do. I am not talking about the two organisations, who shall be nameless. No, I am talking about private individuals, who have ideas and thoughts and beliefs just as strong as any member here.

One of whom has recently designed a tartan which is going through the process of being registered with The Scottish Register of Tartans as we speak.

It is called The Christmas Tartan. And this is it:

If the OP is serious, then best he gets a move on. Less chat, more doing. Because the person who designed this has already got another one on the drawing board. The working title is The Christian Tartan.

This whole discussion could end up being moot.

Regards

Chas

**mookien** · 28th December 11, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitpete

... Why doesn't the OP just do the same here?

Perhaps to allow others to be involved, or more practically, for a bit of cost sharing?

Originally Posted by Chas

... If the OP is serious, then best he gets a move on. Less chat, more doing. Because the person who designed this has already got another one on the drawing board. The working title is The Christian Tartan. Chas

My understanding of the OP was that the "Christian Tartan" referred to the design, spirit, and idea for a new tartan, not the actual name itself. But, I could be wrong. I don't see any reason to rush this process at all. If it is done, we should take our time and do it right.