The ideal time for the black argyll

[OC Richard]

Thanks Jock for your explanations and photos.

I will say that, going back into the latter half of the 19th century, jackets more or less like our black Argyll were worn with the full formal attire of the time (dirk, dirk belt, crossbelt, plaid, long hair sporran, tartan hose, buckled shoes). Then, anyhow, the cut of a jacket didn't seem to matter much, and you'll see jackets cut like Argyll jackets and jackets cut like doublets worn with otherwise identical costumes. The important thing seemed to be that it was black.

I've carried over the same attitude (wrong as it may be) and would see a black Argyll with silver buttons and a black Prince Charlie with silver buttons as being equally suitable for an Evening occasion.

Pipe bands all got on the black Argyll bandwagon in the 1980s and have never looked back. It's easy to see why: it gives a crisp professional look but with simplicity and comfort. For 30 years the black Argyll has been pretty much universal piper's dress the world over and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Pipers and pipe bands have always 'done their own thing' as far as dress goes and they wear the black Argyll for any occasion, any time of day or night.

I will say, as far as the dichotomy/disconnect between 'the ways things are done in Scotland' and 'the way things are done outwith Scotland' goes, that I was hired to pipe at a noontime wedding on a typical sunny Southern California day, and wore a charcoal grey tweed jacket. At the wedding I looked out of place, because all the Scots in attendance, the ones now living here and the ones who flew over from Scotland for the wedding (a large number) were wearing black Prince Charlies.

[Deil the Yin]

Very poignant about the artistic license for this side of the pond etc... First time I've ever seen anyone wear an argyle style sweater with a kilt. I was wondering if this was ever done, or if this is a case of you being particularly bold? I like it at any rate.

Good thread, this. Now I REALLY feel like I need an Argyle (with waistcoat, and for the deep South particularly).

Cheers,
Wesley

Thanks very much for the reply, Jock. It was succinct, comprehensive and much appreciated.

This pretty much corresponds to how I perceive the levels of dress. Since I live in Canada, I take the artistic license to adapt things a little to my audience. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable being married in tweed over here nor would I feel comfortable attending a funeral in lovat green or a bold check argyll. I'd want to go a little more subdued. Please understand that I'm not challenging your conclusions on the matter. I'm just accounting for how it will be perceived since most of the Torontonians looking at me will not experts in Highland attire. For this reason, it's good that I have options like the BBSBA and my charcoal worsted Argyll with leather buttons for those occasions when tweed might be perceived locally as a bit too unrefined for the occasion.

So for me, I'd probably wear this or my BBSBA to a wedding or a funeral:

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I wouldn't require the saxon attired folks to be in morning coats to feel this was the right call, but rather, just dark suits. If I lived in Fort William, I'd probably be more comfortable in tweed for such occasions.

I wore this to a political convention where everyone was in suits:

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For family visits and dinners this xmas season, nobody was in a sports jacket, because everyone was kilted, but we felt pullovers were appropriate for the occasion. At one brother's place, it was ties at the other's open collars.

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Once again, Jock, it's great to have the perspective of a local Highlander to guide us along. Happy Holidays to you and Mrs. Jock Scot.

[Nathan]

First time I've ever seen anyone wear an argyle style sweater with a kilt. I was wondering if this was ever done, or if this is a case of you being particularly bold? I like it at any rate.

Well Deil, thanks for the compliment. The truth is, I don't know either. I've never seen it specifically recommended, and I haven't been told that "it's just not done, old boy". I liked the look of this particular one in the mirror and went with it. I just thought it worked.

[TheOfficialBren]

Perhaps North America is evolving its own Highland Dress conventions? Climate cannot be dismissed, either.
Consider that tweed is more scarce on this side of the pond. Tweed at a wedding or funeral simply does not enter many peoples minds (muchless a kilt) on this side of the pond. Not debating the validity of either perspective. Just a few thoughts.

My advice is (borrowed from another post):
Wear confidence. It fits the best and suits any occasion. (Pardon the pun.)

BTW, Nathan, well done. I would wear any of those styles in your photos without batting an eye.

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps North America is evolving its own Highland Dress conventions? Climate cannot be dismissed, either.
Consider that tweed is more scarce on this side of the pond. Tweed at a wedding or funeral simply does not enter many peoples minds (muchless a kilt) on this side of the pond. Not debating the validity of either perspective. Just a few thoughts.

My advice is (borrowed from another post):
Wear confidence. It fits the best and suits any occasion. (Pardon the pun.)

BTW, Nathan, well done. I would wear any of those styles in your photos without batting an eye.

I think you are right Bren, North America and the rest of world probably, are developing their own Highland dress conventions. Sadly, from my point of view at least, much of the this "new thinking" is based on misinformation, misunderstandings, misconceptions, misinterpretations, mis-selling, with added wishful thinking and yes, without doubt the climate does play a part too. The consequence of all that just adds to the lack of confidence for those making their kilt attire choices and the following pandering to minor local dress sensitivities is the inevitable result. Does it matter? Well, in the long run probably not, but until and unless the questions about "correct THCD matters" cease, then yes it does. I have to say this "new thinking" based on lack of knowledge is also now prevalent in Scotland too, although one can hardly blame the climate(yet?) for this state of affairs here!

[OC Richard]

I have to say this "new thinking" based on lack of knowledge is also now prevalent in Scotland too

Perhaps there is a growing gulf between the Highland Dress of the rural Highlands and of Glasgow/southern cities? There seem to be two major streams of kiltwearing there, the Tartan Army stream and the Kilt Hire stream, neither of which has much connexion to the rural Highlands. Am I offbase? (To use a baseball term!)

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps there is a growing gulf between the Highland Dress of the rural Highlands and of Glasgow/southern cities? There seem to be two major streams of kiltwearing there, the Tartan Army stream and the Kilt Hire stream, neither of which has much connexion to the rural Highlands. Am I offbase? (To use a baseball term!)

You are not wrong, Richard, although I think the Tartan Army can almost be discounted(What!!!!!!!?????) as they are not really in the running to be taken seriously, from any point of view(apart from, perhaps, the TA's own!), as far their kilt attire goes. On the other hand the Kilt Hire companies(the uncaring) slant does have a major influence and it is plain to see throughout Scotland these days as customers( the unknowing) beat a path to their door. Without doubt there is little connection to the traditional(not so much rural these days, I think)way of dressing in kilt attire.

[Nathan]

I know we're speaking in generalizations here and not about myself, but to clarify, it is certainly not my goal to create another regional style of THCD, but rather to make personal choices within the bounds of what's acceptable with a good precedent in THCD even if it's not necessarily the typical choice for a similar occasion in the UK.

I like to think I do not play the lemon in the photos I have posted and the choices I make, but I suppose that is for those who gaze upon me to decide each for themselves.

There are ample examples of kilt jackets over the years that are made a little closer to the saxon lounge suit in terms of a more refined fabric. I also love tweed Highland day wear and try to get it as "right" as I can.

My quest, rather, is to select from the palette of THCD options, the one that will fit best for the chosen Canadian occasion. I think the fact that my fellows will be attired in a Canadian fashion rather than a British one, challenges the aforementioned examples of equivalencies.

Perhaps there are misunderstandings in both directions given the challenges of wearing Highland attire outside of it's native habitat.

For example, when a British person says "formal daytime wedding", this has a specific meaning. For a Canadian, almost every wedding would be called formal but what that means would vary greatly. The photo Jock posted of a formal daytime wedding looks like costumes from the late 19th or early 20th century to my eye. Although there have been a few posts to the contrary, I have lived in several Canadian cities and have a diverse network and have never seen a morning suit in person. Nor have I ever seen a gent in a top hat that wasn't pulling some rabbit out of it or reenacting Canadian Confederation circa 1867. Trust me when I say that a top hat is a costume here even if some Canadian pops up in the thread and says, "I wear a top hat sometimes".

The typical convention in Canada is that the wedding party is dressed "formally" and the guests dress like they are going to a house of worship.

The level of formality has more to do with one's role or rank in the proceedings than it does time of day or dress code on the invitation.

Wedding A - Tuxedos and gowns (Most common)
Groom's party in tuxedos. The groom is often attired a bit fancier than his groomsmen or a bit different in any case. The bride will be in a long formal gown with veil and perhaps a tiara. Bride's Maids will be in cocktail dresses or ball gowns of some variety.

Guests will be attired in a variety of levels of dress, none of which should include tuxedos as this would make you look like you were trying to pass yourself off as part of the wedding party. It would include lounge suits on one end of the spectrum all the way down to the blue collar relative who might consider himself very "dressed up" because he has on cotton chinos and a button down shirt rather than his usual jeans and t-shirt. (Some blue collar relatives would wear suits also, obviously).

Perhaps this whole affair would seem ghastly to some, but this is the world in which I live. The most tastefully dressed male wedding guests in this example are the ones in the lounge/business suits. Not overdressed and looking like the wedding party, but given the wedding party's desire to have a fancy day and evening, they have not underdressed like our friend in the cotton twill trousers and button down "dress shirt". (I'm using the North American definition of dress shirt being a shirt that holds it's collar shape when worn with a necktie.) The local etiquette requires that the wedding guests not upstage the wedding party or even match the level of formality of the wedding party so this should also be considered when going kilted to a non-kilted wedding.

Wedding B: Kilts.
If the gents in the wedding party are in kilts, 90% of the time they will be wearing Price Charlies and the other 10% will be divided between the black argyll with silver buttons or the charcoal grey lightweight tweed braemar that is showing up in hire shops a lot lately. The convention for guest attire will be exactly as in wedding A, although it would not be unheard of for the odd guest to show up in a kilt as well so long as he was obviously dressed less formally than the wedding party.

Wedding C - Suits
Another local wedding convention would be for the groom and his groomsmen to be in matching dark suits. Usually, they would be worn as smartly as possible so not as to appear that one was going to the office. This may involve french cuffs, solid colour ties and pocket squares. The bride and her party could be dressed in the same way as the tuxedo example above or perhaps the dresses would lean closer to cocktail than ball gowns.

The guests in this example would be attired exactly as in the previous two examples.

Most weddings here happen in the summer and are long events that can often start outdoors and always end up with dancing (not formal dancing, pop music favourites). So, if I choose my lovat green or check tweed, nobody will call me out. Nobody will call out our friend in the chinos either, but they will take note. If I wear my Highland Games attire with tweed and full mask sporran, I may be traditionally attired, but I will have made an impractical and impertinent choice. One the one hand, my jacket will look too country or professorial for the occasion in terms of fabric and pattern (I know, this is a misunderstanding but it's still my problem) and on the other hand, I will have to take it off promptly at the dinner because the tweed is thick and therefore hot in the summer. It certainly won't make it through the dancing. Finally, my full mask sporran will illicit every reaction from horror to pity for the poor animal since fur is generally passe but fur with a face on it would be considered by many to be in very poor taste indeed.

If I wear the Black Argyll with silver buttons, I think it would still look too blingy and people would expect me to be in the wedding party or to be the wedding piper.

Given the context in which I shall find myself, I require something in between a tweed and a black argyll with silver buttons. A dark Argyll in worsted or barathea wool with a subdued button choice seems to fit the bill perfectly. In fact, Jock has often recommended swappable buttons on the black argyll for occasions when the tweed would be perhaps too little and the silver would be perhaps too much. I just opted for two jackets to save the bother.

I'll be more comfortable from a climate perspective in the refined wool and I'll let my colourful tartan stand on it's own.

The same holds true for a funeral. Dark clothing is expected as a sign of mourning. The green tweed simply won't do. A funeral is not the time to create a teachable moment about the fashion conventions of Inverness, but rather it is a time to mourn the passing of a loved one respectfully or to give comfort to others.

Have I transgressed THCD conventions in this setting? I think not. They were never conceived for such a setting. And the reality is, if you're the only one in the room "doing it right", whether you like it or not, you're probably doing it wrong. Because my objective is to be a gracious guest at someone else's affair, while showing my pride as a Highland Gael.

Apologies for the longwinded post, but I don't think it's necessary to develop our own Highland dress conventions on this side of the pond. It is unavoidable, however, that we will have to fit kilted attire into different contexts than our friends in Great Britain generally and the Highlands specifically. Care must be taken to navigate this balance with due respect given to both tradition and one's hosts. I don't think this is pandering, I just think it's trying to dress right for the occasion.

[Phil]

I do wonder how much importance should be placed on the "correct" dress. Fashion is something that evolves constantly so whether we should be laying down immutable rules is questionable. I don't dress in the same way as my parents and my children don't dress like me. I think that highland dress should follow some conventions such as length, pleats at the back etc. But as to the rest, jackets etc. there is enormous scope for individual variations.

[Spartan Tartan]

A very well composed post, Nathan. I think you framed the choice of attire and the challenge of selecting appropriate articles of clothing in North America quite well.