inverness

[Jack Daw]

No one has touched on "Lancaster", yet, so I'll contribute this one:

- There's 'LAN-CAST-er', as in Burt Lancaster - (Assuming he pronounced his own name as everyone else did in the U.S.);
- 'LAN-cuh-ster' as I have heard the town in Pennsylvania pronounced; and,
- there's a small town south of Dallas pronounced, "LAYNG-ster', or even 'LAYNK-ster'.

Anymore for Lancaster?

[ThistleDown]

And then those places that have been completely renamed and now have no resemblance to the original Gaelic: Newtonmore and Dingwall being two obvious examples.

Peter, I think Dingwall is the English derivation of the Scandinavian 'thingwald' and not from the Gaelic. It means 'place of the justice' or something similar, and is found in various forms all over Northern Europe. As for Newtonmore, I don't think there was even a village there before the early 19C, so which came first the English or the Gaelic?

[figheadair]

Peter, I think Dingwall is the English derivation of the Scandinavian 'thingwald' and not from the Gaelic. It means 'place of the justice' or something similar, and is found in various forms all over Northern Europe. As for Newtonmore, I don't think there was even a village there before the early 19C, so which came first the English or the Gaelic?

Yep, you were right about Dingwall, I was having a moment. And wrt Newtonmore/Baile Ùr an t-Slèibh, neither of which is listed but Homann's Map of Scotland c1710 lists several clachans in the area, including; Garvie Moir, Garvie Beg, Caillearachil and Crachy. Anyone of these may have been the basis for Newtonmore. I have some other records at home that might throw some light on the matter but that will have to wait until the New Year.

[ThistleDown]

Garvamore and Garvabeg are in the Parish of Laggan. The names mean simply 'big ford' and 'little ford', but in fact probably refered to the farm enclosures on opposite sides of the Spey up near its headwaters. Garvamore was held by Adam Mackintosh, a bastard son of William of Mackintosh in the mid-14C. These two are well above the confluence with the Truim, so wouldn't have been the clachans on which Newtonmore was based. Crachie is the same as Crathie and that's above the Mashie. I don't know Caillearachil. Perhaps someone can translate that better, but my effort is 'place of the old woman' and that doesn't sound like it would be near Newtonmore, either. Newtonmore is in the Parish of Kingussie; I can't verify this right now, but my guess is that Newtonmore grew around a 19C railway station serving the local estates; farther up the line Kingussie ('the head of the fir wood') was founded a little earlier by the Duke of Gordon.

[figheadair]

Garvamore and Garvabeg are in the Parish of Laggan. The names mean simply 'big ford' and 'little ford', but in fact probably refered to the farm enclosures on opposite sides of the Spey up near its headwaters. Garvamore was held by Adam Mackintosh, a bastard son of William of Mackintosh in the mid-14C. These two are well above the confluence with the Truim, so wouldn't have been the clachans on which Newtonmore was based. Crachie is the same as Crathie and that's above the Mashie. I don't know Caillearachil. Perhaps someone can translate that better, but my effort is 'place of the old woman' and that doesn't sound like it would be near Newtonmore, either. Newtonmore is in the Parish of Kingussie; I can't verify this right now, but my guess is that Newtonmore grew around a 19C railway station serving the local estates; farther up the line Kingussie ('the head of the fir wood') was founded a little earlier by the Duke of Gordon.

Interesting Rex. I'm away until Jan so will need to dig more when I'm home. The National Library's map collection is a fascinating read. The nearest I can find on a quick search is in John Cary's 1801 New Map of Scotland which lists a New K of Laggan which looks to be roughly in the right place. K presumaably stands for either Kirk or Kinloch?

[SeumasA]

I now live in Utah, and here there is a tendency to drop the letter t drives me crazy. They typically say "mountain" as "mou-an," my maiden name of Barton became "Bar-un." They also pronounce "our" the same way as "are."

I grew up in northern California and in Washington. I also now live in Utah. I don't think it's that they drop the 't'; it's that the syllables are accented differently. For instance, in my west coast accent I say the word mountain as moun-TAIN. Here it's MOUNT-un. The town Layton is LAYT-un, where I would say Lay-TON.

[Celtic Mom]

I grew up in northern California and in Washington. I also now live in Utah. I don't think it's that they drop the 't'; it's that the syllables are accented differently. For instance, in my west coast accent I say the word mountain as moun-TAIN. Here it's MOUNT-un. The town Layton is LAYT-un, where I would say Lay-TON.

When I was in a phonetics class in college the professor described the accent here as a tendency to "talk in the back of the mouth," so instead of using the tongue against the front of the mouth/teeth for the mid-word consonant t sound, it is produced by more of a glottal stop. I'll have to pay attention and listen more carefully to see!