To the Forum regarding the XMTSAS Saltire

[Drac]

Not having the prevlidge of being a "plankowner" of X-mark I will stay out of whether there is an issue between the old and the new. I do not know his reason for leaving or if the is bad blood here.

I do wish to ask is it gentlemannly to rip at someone on a public forum?

Are we a communitty of friends or a clic?

If there are issues that those nubes of us aren't aware of (and don't want to be) than might those be better handled privately?

Can pay respects to a gentleman, what he has done and to what the meaning was behind the Saltire was or is this communitty different from what I thought it was?

All the heat over it does nothing but destroy what it stood for. Do we really what to force someone to give it up? What meaning would it have than?

Jim

[JSFMACLJR]

Not angry. Just trying to point out that this reminds me of a little kid that takes his soccer ball home because he didn't like losing a game. Basically ruining it for the rest of the kids until they find another ball. Seems a little selfish. Really isn't a big deal, and didn't mean to make it one. Let's figure out what the new "ball" should be, and move on. I know there are already other posts discussing this now. Enough said.

Why does this forum need a "new ball"?

[Tony]

while I stalked around historical sites.

Your idea of historical sites differs from mine.

But I think I like your's better.

[Paul Henry]

Not angry. Just trying to point out that this reminds me of a little kid that takes his soccer ball home because he didn't like losing a game. Basically ruining it for the rest of the kids until they find another ball. Seems a little selfish. Really isn't a big deal, and didn't mean to make it one. Let's figure out what the new "ball" should be, and move on. I know there are already other posts discussing this now. Enough said.

There is little need for name calling.
I don't imagine many people would consider Jamie selfish in any way.

With thoughts like this expressed it's little wonder the Saltire is retiring. It was fun whilst it lasted, but it's time in this forum is over. The idea of replacing it is wrong, it simply isn't something that can be; it represented a different time, many different people and different ideas.
Something new can be found of course, but it shouldn't just be a replacement

[The Barry]

Not angry. Just trying to point out that this reminds me of a little kid that takes his soccer ball home because he didn't like losing a game. Basically ruining it for the rest of the kids until they find another ball. Seems a little selfish. Really isn't a big deal, and didn't mean to make it one. Let's figure out what the new "ball" should be, and move on. I know there are already other posts discussing this now. Enough said.

Maybe we should just use a soccer ball.

I am personally disappointed that I was never able to host the Saltire. I'm also not going to worry about it. I was hoping that it belonged to the larger group of us rather than just to one member, but again, I'm not too worried about it.

I hope that we agree that if we make another 'traveler', it doesn't belong to anybody, and thus can keep traveling even if someone decides to stop being active on this forum.

[Raphael]

The Saltire airship has never been the property of xmarksthescot.com. It is developed, owned and operated by Panache. He was nice enough to send the airship around the world and to meet the people that Panache couldn't meet personally. The Saltire may have become something bigger than what Panache had first imagined. But the bottom line is that Panache owns the ship and if he wants the ship to retire, he can.

Move on people.

[Nighthawk]

Sorry, but I don't see that analogy at all. My grandfather took his masonic apron to the grave with him as part of masonic funeral rites, but I don't see that as a slap in the face. I have other items to remember him and his membership in the craft. The family tradition of males joining the lodge continued, regardless of whether his apron is above or below the ground.



I view the Saltire much like I view the old Hamish Mk. I pose that he retired a number of years ago. Folks didn't gather torches and pitchforks when Hamish announced its retirement; they simply came up with new poses, with Hamish in the lead.

T.

The analogy is one of a family heirloom. You father was supposed to be buried with his apron! Our family sword has been in the family since the Civil War, and is supposed to be passed down from one generation to the next. That was my point- that was, as I read Panache's original posts, the idea behind the Saltire, which is what makes it poignant. Poses are not things that get passed along in order to help unify...

See, one of the reasons that I so love the Saltire is that it makes this forum totally unique as far as I can tell! To my knowledge, there is no other
online community with something quite as uniquely unifying. I'm upset by the retirement because I feel like future members deserve that link to the past, that unity with the rest of us.
As to the next incarnation of the Saltire, I would love to personally either create or help to create the next world traveler, and it will be the property of this forum and everyone on it, to be retired when no one wants to host it any longer!

[macwilkin]

The analogy is one of a family heirloom. You father was supposed to be buried with his apron! Our family sword has been in the family since the Civil War, and is supposed to be passed down from one generation to the next. That was my point- that was, as I read Panache's original posts, the idea behind the Saltire, which is what makes it poignant. Poses are not things that get passed along in order to help unify...

See, one of the reasons that I so love the Saltire is that it makes this forum totally unique as far as I can tell! To my knowledge, there is no other
online community with something quite as uniquely unifying. I'm upset by the retirement because I feel like future members deserve that link to the past, that unity with the rest of us.
As to the next incarnation of the Saltire, I would love to personally either create or help to create the next world traveler, and it will be the property of this forum and everyone on it, to be retired when no one wants to host it any longer!

Actually, it was my grandfather, and in masonic funeral rites, the apron is traditionally thrown into the grave on top of the coffin, not worn by the brother. And not every mason has those funeral rites, by the way.

By the way, the Saltire was not around when I joined XMTS back in June, 2004, nor was it apart of the forum when Hank first created it six months before that. I think Zardoz's comments about the creation of an "sacred relic" are spot on here.

Your last sentence also troubles me a bit; it seems to me you should care more why Jamie chose to leave the forum, or at least be less active, than to ensure that an iron grip is kept on something. As someone else mentioned, the real heart of Xmarks is its members, not a wooden airship.

T.

[Andy Proffitt]

Thank you for the Saltire Jamie, it has obviously brought great joy, otherwise the reactions would not be this strong.
It will be missed, as have your posts been of late.
Be of good cheer.

[Raphael]

Not angry. Just trying to point out that this reminds me of a little kid that takes his soccer ball home because he didn't like losing a game. Basically ruining it for the rest of the kids until they find another ball. Seems a little selfish. Really isn't a big deal, and didn't mean to make it one. Let's figure out what the new "ball" should be, and move on. I know there are already other posts discussing this now. Enough said.

If you don't know Panache and don't know why he is no longer actively participate in this forum, you have no right to say anything bad about his decision. You may not agree with it, but that's too bad.

I would have send you a PM to discuss it, but since you posted your thoughts to the public, I will have to post my thoughts to the public as well. I hope that you guys will fun about your new balls.