What they really say about us

[DWFII]

It would be nice to see a return to swanky dressing as whole. I think a lot of people would actually enjoy it...

I doubt it. There are any number of men's (and probably women's) style forums...notably StyleForum...dedicated to elegance and refinement in men's dress. I post on some of them mainly to give advice about shoe quality and construction.

But it's the typical mix...people there who admire high end men's fashion but don know how to get there themselves and are looking for someone to tell them what to do...right down to the colour of the shirt.

People looking for someone to tell them what to do for no other reason than to argue with them.

People who come in looking for advice, post about 10 times and then become instant experts--experts at parroting what the real experts know and say.

But a large majority, sometimes with the best intentions, ask questions, get good reliable answers and then start trying to bargain the whole issue down. If they're told that a good pair of shoes start at $800.00 they either start scratching about for some...almost certainly impossible...way to achieve the same look and feel for less than $100.00.

Or, express outrage that people who really and truly understand and know, are telling them that the shoes they bought at Macy's are made of cardboard and corrected grain leather. Or that the purple shoes they had selected to go with the PV Men's Warehouse suit isn't considered really suitable for anything other than nightclubs and street dances.

And always, always, in the background is the same old arguments between the politically correct, "wear what you want", "how dare you tell me..." crowd (mostly neophytes) and the people who because they really and truly have made a study of it, who have sought knowledge and not just approval, could actually pull off a pair of purple two eye derbies albeit not for peanuts and not with a MW suit.

Don't shoot the messenger...

[Java]

It would be nice to see a return to swanky dressing as whole. I think a lot of people would actually enjoy it...

I sort of agree with this. My generation has dropped the ball in this regard. (I'm 51) Example: I own a dozen or so printed t-shirts, with slogans, logos, what have you printed on them. Most men I know that are my age do. My father, born during the depression, wouldn't dream of ever leaving the house in a collarless shirt. Ever. Even to wash the car....
While I am making an effort to improve the level of my dress, I won't be buying any $800 shoes soon. With my "Saxon wear" as well as my kilts and their accoutrements, for now I will just have to make do with the best off-the-rack items I can afford. At least until my children grow up and move out.

Also, I'd like to see men's hats make a comeback.

Have Fun,
Tom

[chrisupyonder]

I think the media could improve the dress of their presenters etc. and maybe it would change the views of the masses.

This is a frame from the series Scotland's Clans. At no point in the whole series did he wear anything other than this. I would have at least liked him to wear a kilt at some points in the series. He is a member of a clan but I cannot remember which.



Or at least a decent pair of trousers and maybe a tweed sports jacket and tie would have been more appropriate for the series..

Chris.

[lukeyrobertson]

I have always thought that formal and informal styles of dress for men are typically boring...shirt, tie, suit, shoes... whatever. To my mind, the kilt raises the bar on a number of fronts. I like it, because when we wear it either informally or formally, it not only feels good but ups the energy in a way that seems to say, "take notice!". It is a signficant departure from typical men's wear, at least here in Canada. Usually, when people notice, the look on their faces says, "wow" even when they say nary a word. I like that.

[londonkiltfan]

I agree with a bunch of replies to my ten cents.
- I am not familiar with Men's Warehouse, but I am guessing its suits will not look as tailored and good quality than say one from Saville Row, or more reasonably, off the peg Hugo Boss.
- I did lol at the 'instant expert' comment. I think we can use these so called style-sites for inspiration or advice. But I don't regard them as fool proof, and like you said, some posters may not have a clue in what they are saying.
- Men's clothes have become boring and kind of 'typical' because we have allowed this to happen over generations. Much more so in recent times, with the advent of this large focus on branded goods.
- I agree 100% that a kilt raises the sartorial bar in a fantastic way. And enlivens a males attire out of the above mentioned 'staid framework'.

In my own experience, I enjoy pushing the boundaries of menswear. I draw inspiration from my surroundings, heritage, eras and my imagination. Of course, current fashion modes does play a role, but I refuse to be restrained by that.

For instance, yes a suit, collar and tie is rather predictable. But, how about jazzing it up? I might wear a funky bow-tie instead. Or how about matching the tie/bow with a silk pocket square? Or ditching the matched suit trousers for some khaki chinos? Or even wearing a hat? How about having an open necked shirt with a turtleneck knotted handkerchief?

All these choices may not be to your liking, but they do exist and are certainly eye catching and timelessly classic. Its really nice to see people smiling and giving appreciation to what you have on. All around us people are just taking the easy option of jeans, t-shirt and trainers. I am not being horrible when I say that, but it's nice to break that social mould and go for that statement! A Kilt is just another avenue of choice, and as well as unparalleled comfort (as a male, its like air con..!) it is a great option to enhance a simple white tee, or the whole classically attired 'hog'.

[jason10mm]

The cnversation has moved on a bit, but if I could veer back towards the lifeboat comment...my military training has taught me how to make an excellent impromptu lifejacket out of a pair of trousers, not sure I could replicate the feat with a kilt. So for the sake of fairness and safety, I do think the jeans wearing survivors should go into the drink as they at least have safety gear :P

Plus if you happen to be wearing a great kilt or cut the pleats out of a modern kilt you have enough material for a half decent sail :P

[DWFII]

- Men's clothes have become boring and kind of 'typical' because we have allowed this to happen over generations. Much more so in recent times, with the advent of this large focus on branded goods.
- I agree 100% that a kilt raises the sartorial bar in a fantastic way. And enlivens a males attire out of the above mentioned 'staid framework'.


For instance, yes a suit, collar and tie is rather predictable. But, how about jazzing it up? I might wear a funky bow-tie instead. Or how about matching the tie/bow with a silk pocket square? Or ditching the matched suit trousers for some khaki chinos? Or even wearing a hat? How about having an open necked shirt with a turtleneck knotted handkerchief?

All these choices may not be to your liking, but they do exist and are certainly eye catching and timelessly classic. Its really nice to see people smiling and giving appreciation to what you have on. All around us people are just taking the easy option of jeans, t-shirt and trainers. I am not being horrible when I say that, but it's nice to break that social mould and go for that statement! A Kilt is just another avenue of choice, and as well as unparalleled comfort (as a male, its like air con..!) it is a great option to enhance a simple white tee, or the whole classically attired 'hog'.

If men's wear has become boring or staid or "typical" it is because we've so lowered the bar that accepting the lowest common denominator has become the "standard."

Men'sWarehouse seeks to emulate quality without actually becoming acquainted with it. It offers the illusion of sartorial splendor to the indifferent buyer and no one else. It is a funhouse mirror that allows you to believe you've got broad shoulders, when in fact all the broad is somewhere else.

There is a standard for white tie and a standard for black tie and a standard for evening wear and another for business dress and yet another for summer casual. And all these categories have some limitations. To deviate too much just makes you look like that French cowboy Jean Outre. You would not want to wear chinos to a black tie event or horse-bit loafers with a business suit. Not if you want to be comfortable, not if you want others around you to be comfortable.

Standards are good things. They let you fit in with a minimum of fuss, questions, or explanations....not so much for you but for others--it's a consideration you extend to others.

To the extent that we try to emulate a traditional look...be it in a suit or in a kilt...without understanding what it comprises or respecting its spirit, limitations, definitions, and standards, we're buying tickets to the House of Mirrors.

[LANCER1562]

In response to the comment about young men wearing their pants down around their a** and thinking it's fashionable; I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and was diving through The Castro (our Gay/Lesbian/Transgender Neighborhood), don't ask why, and I saw one of those "fashionable" young men with the low slung pants and three of his friends walking by. They neglected to notice that a couple of the locals were checking them out. I was tempted to tell them but I was laughing too hard.

[chrisupyonder]

Had a quick look at StyleForum. Ok some very smart outfits, ABOVE THE WAIST.
As much as I tried, I could find anything to say, one way or the other, about a pair of JEANS. This is where the kilt wins all round, we are looking at the whole body.
So What THEY really say about us does not matter. What another kilted person says about us DOES matter because we are talking the same language.

Chris.

[DWFII]

^ I don't know what this means....there are posts and guidelines for casual dress on StyleForum.

That said, it is well to remember not only that this divergence in the thread was in response to the whole idea of "swanky dressing" but that jeans don't really qualify as "swanky"no matter how you cut it.

Beyond that, I suspect that "what they say" does matter to virtually everyone here. Not only because we are a social species and no one wants to be such an Ishmael that social intercourse becomes impossible; but also because unless the kilt is to be only an icon of the pariah, it has to "work" on many levels as an acceptable man's garment. It can't just be held like a secret password that only we can understand.

And in passing, I might add that I am not convinced we are all "talking the same language." There's a good deal to suggest that we are not.