Traditional Civilian Highland SHIRTS

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Yesterday the postman brought me two shirts, clearly stored for a while after laundering many long years ago. They are of the stiff front, button-up-the-back, detached collar variety. I am sure somebody knows where to buy these new, but I doubt I could afford them. One came from Rogers, Peet, of NY & Boston. Anybody know how long they have been gone?

Sadly, the formal dress shirt has not been commercially available since, at least, the early to mid-1980s. Even custom shirt and high-end makers in the UK such as Budd and New & Lingwood are unable to provide these shirts at any thing approaching a realistic price (GBP 300+ strikes me as a "we really can't be bothered" price). When these were available "off the shelf" from Brooks Brothers in the '80s they retailed for about $125.00.

These shirts are vastly superior to ordinary dress shirts as the fronts stay flat when seated, with no gapping at the placket to expose the tee-shirt promoting your local fishing tackle emporium; and, of course, no chance of one's Order of the Alaskan Sled Dogs becoming hung up in one's shirt front whilst waltzing with a dowager duchess.

Perhaps we can encourage CMcG to find a custom shirt maker in the Orient who would be able to supply such shirts to the disciminati?

[MacLowlife]

AND, it is much easier to put the studs through the solid front, then button up the back. Or get someone to help you. Help buttoning up the back seems perfectly reasonable. Help putting your studs in the front seems a little helpless. I have one shirt with the "sneak in" slot to allow you to get your hand in there, but that seems less than perfect. I wish my dates had shirts with that slot, though...

But seriously, 300 anything is a joke price for a shirt. Maybe 300 Rupees or possibly 300 Fr.

So, on the topic of getting one's stud front shirt on without spoiling the starch, what does the Rabble? Pop it over with most of them done or struggle with the one-hand-in/one-hand-out? I have some old studs that have a disc back. That helps, too...

[CMcG]

Perhaps we can encourage CMcG to find a custom shirt maker in the Orient who would be able to supply such shirts to the disciminati?

I definitely look forward to investigating the reputedly excellent and affordable tailors of Hong Kong. Unfortunately, I won't be there until the start of September, so don't hold your breath on the report...

Any more details on these stiff front, button-up-the-back, detached collar shirts that MacLowlife is talking about?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Truly, in the case of the "buttons in the back" shirt a picture (front & rear) is worth a thousand words.

Imagine if you will an ordinary shirt, but without a collar, or collar button. Instead of the usual seven buttons from collar to tails, it has but two; one (button A) three from the top, the other (button B) three from the bottom. Before putting the shirt on one places the studs in the stiff bosom and the collar. To put the shirt on one does up button A, then slips his shirt on over his head, sliding his arms into the arms of the shirt. Then, reaching back, one does up button B and, VOILA!, your shirt is on. It's then a simple matter to set the collar, do the rear collar button, and then the front. Cufflinks go in last, and shouldn't be much of a challenge.

Some shirts have a narrow, elongated u-shaped cut out on the center of the front apron to allow the front of the shirt to be tucked smoothly into the legs of one's evening trousers and to prevent interfering with the fly. There is also a small tab with a button hole immediately below the bosom of the shirt. This is intended to be fastened to a button on the inside of the kilt (or waistband of the trousers) to hold down the front of the shirt. I strongly advocate the use of this tab-- fitting a button to the back of the left apron of your kilt isn't difficult, and will pay huge dividends when it comes to sitting and standing. Once kilted (or in trousers or trews), the tie goes on. If one is wearing an order or decoration normally worn suspended from a ribbon around the neck, this goes on first with the tie going over it. Once the tie is attended to the waistcoat and jacket are put on and one is ready to step out for the evening.

Perhaps McLowlife should post a few pictures....

[Cygnus]

Perhaps we can encourage CMcG to find a custom shirt maker in the Orient who would be able to supply such shirts to the disciminati?

I would certainly be interested in this, but would such a tailor be capable of starching the bib of the shirt properly?

[WolfmanJack]

Here is a link to a fairly thorough description of these shirts, including some diagrams illustrating their construction.

Perhaps this would be sufficient for CMcG's tailor to make one.

[WolfmanJack]

Here are some photos of a vintage "boiled" shirt that sold on Etsy a couple of months ago. This is the earlier, front-button design.
[IMG][/IMG]

[English Bloke]

... Imagine if you will ...

Your description seems perfectly sensible and donning such an article sounds a relatively simple process. I wonder though how simple it will be after the party and it's time to remove it. Bearing in mind consumption of the better part of a decanter of Port and a few stiff ones at the bar for the road...

I have a vision in my head of a one man wrestling match, complete with two half nelsons and an arial somersault. Maybe partaking in a little less aperitif would help me do the trick? I never was good at numbers.

Cracking idea for a shirt though... Until some ill mannered Oik with one on, decides to remove his jacket at the table [Gawd forbid!]. He'd look like a lost in-patient.

[creagdhubh]

In ye olden days (that is prior to about 1960) good shirts came with longer tails so that collars (and cuffs) could be replaced if they became frayed or stained, simply by cutting them out of the surplus length of the shirt tail. Because the collar and/or cuffs were cut from the tail, they were always a perfect match for the shirt, regardless of the number of times it had been laundered.

Now, or so it seems, one is lucky if their shirt has enough tail to stay tucked into their trousers or kilt!

Brooks Brothers traditional fit shirts do! And there are plenty of non-button downed collars to choose from!

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

Ah yes, and in the days before plastic stays and their little pockets spoiled an entire collar reversing industry there were spring-loaded u-shaped wire things that ran up from one collar point, under your tie and down to the other point. With just the right amount of starch, it made for a perfect collar.

Used that process whilst on active-duty in the U.S. Marine Corps - Creighton khaki service uniform shirts, awww, superb quality!

Cheers,