An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[pascs]

comment deleted

[Jock Scot]

Oh come on chaps, leave it out. I have obviously and unintentionally got under the fellow's skin and for that I am genuinely sorry. I do feel that his comments were a tad unfair, but hey ho, such is life. Now let us get back on topic, shall we.

[O'Searcaigh]

Oh come on chaps, leave it out. I have obviously and unintentionally got under the fellow's skin and for that I am genuinely sorry. I do feel that his comments were a tad unfair, but hey ho, such is life. Now let us get back on topic, shall we.

In reference to ??? ' just trying to follow the thread.

[SlackerDrummer]

There was no hidden agenda in my question (post#1); it was not a trick question, and I wasn't looking to trap anyone or for some kind of "gotcha" moment. I certainly did not intend for this thread to be about clashing viewpoints of kilt-wearing. (Thank goodness for Jock Scot's mettle!)

My question was merely aimed to refine what I perceived as a shortsightedness in the recent surveys. And why wouldn't there be shortsightedness? After all, there is an art and science to surveys and people make a LOT of money coming up with them and analyzing them. Jock Scot's wife is not, to my knowledge, a pollster.

As a political professional, I know that you can skew the results of a poll by the way you phrase a question -intentionally or not - and I wondered whether how a few of the questions were presented led to some false answers. Specifically questions 7 and 8 and questions 9 and 10 in F4T and F4T2 respectively, which are

Where would you normally wear the civilian kilt? (tick 1)
Solely in the Highlands:
Solely in Scotland:
In the UK:

Would you ever wear the civilian kilt outwith the UK? (tick 1)
Yes, in exceptional circumstances:
Never:

These questions were asked directly of the participants about their behavior. I do not know, but I believe that most of the survey participants were locals. Therefore the results give the view of not just Scots, but residents of the Highlands.

I asked the question I did because I did not feel that these survey questions sufficiently addressed the wearing of kilts outside Scotland. They were phrased and answered about the particular behavior of Highland residents, though much has since been read into the meaning of the answers. Why would these men wear their kilts abroad? Seriously. If most of the time they wear their kilts are for culturally appropriate events like weddings, nights out on the town in the Highlands, etc. When I have been abroad, for instance, I did not take a suit with me. I was not planning on attending any events for which I normally wear a suit and I think that is the real reason for the answers to the questions above, too.

What was not addressed (or at least I didn't see evidence of it) was the idea of whether or not any of these men would continue to wear their kilts were they to find themselves no longer residents of the Highlands. I wondered perhaps if they just hadn't thought much about it. Or maybe they are unaware of the opportunities they might have in other parts of the world to don their Highland attire and revisit the spirit of their homeland with other ex-pats and those of Scottish heritage.

Also, I think there is a huge misunderstanding about the difference between cultural identity v. national identity. I am, as many Americans on this forum, a mutt. But I have a lot of Scottish ancestry. It is the primary commonality between my ancestry and my wife's. We celebrate our Scottish ancestry on occasion and when doing so I wear a kilt. But don't get me wrong, if the United States and Scotland were ever to meet in the World Cup, I'd be rooting for the good old US of A.

[Guinness>water]

Tobus hit the nail on the head perfectly.

JockScot,
thank you so much for giving us your opinions/telling us your mind. I am always interested in what you have to say and hold your advice on Highland dress very high. I am suprised by your opinion concerning this thread but respect it as that, your opnion, and I am better for knowing it. I sincerly hope that I have not offended you or any other Scot by trying to understand yalls feelings on us Americans wearing your national dress.

Please dont let anyone discourage you from continuing to help folks like me out.

Thanks again

[ForresterModern]

*** to what Sir William and Tobus have both said, far more sincerely and elegantly than my poor quill (or keyboard) could lay down here.

jeff

[PatG]

I have been thinking about why I wear the kilt especially in light of Jock Scots opinion. My full answer is long, involved and probably too much information for this forum. So I will try to keep it short. I do not wear the kilt to honour the current residents of Scotland nor do I seek their blessing or permission to do so. I know that their history and tradition makes them experts on the kilt and how to wear it and I respect that knowledge as I would that of an expert in any field.

I am a first generation Canadian of British and Scots descent with no strong ties to either the old country or to the established diaspora Scots community. Further, with the rise of official multiculturalism in Canada, the British Empire culture I was brought up in at home is widely dismissed as the root of all national if not global problems. As such, it is up to me to create an identity for myself. This I choose to do through remembering and honouring My name, My family, My ancestors and My culture - and nobody else's - in part through wearing the kilt.

Jock Scot and others might not agree and I understand and respect their position. Though I make no claim to be of anything other than of proud peasant stock, I try to act as a gentleman would and determine what would make my host and the other guests comfortable. Thus in the unlikely event I am graced with a black tie invitation from Jock, I would do my research and hit the rental shops for tie, shirt, tails and trousers. Should I ever be asked 'round for an informal dram, I might well show up in my Utilikilt and sweater but would be careful to keep the single malt between me and the muzzle at all times.

Come Tartan Day on April 6th - I am wearing my kilt to the office.

[Jock Scot]

SlackerDrummer.

You have absolutely nothing to apologise for my dear chap.

You asked a fair question and what has ensued is a very informative discussion. My honest impression is that the reaction from outwith these shores has grown ever louder and more defensive as the discussion has progressed. I think it was Shakespeare who had a line along the lines of "methinks thou protest too much". Others will no doubt think otherwise!

Indeed, neither the F4T1 and 2 were put together by experts and the way the questions were put together could well be criticised by those that know about these things. I did try to utilise the questions that were asked the first time around for the sake of continuity and I did ask for and get input for extra questions from the members. It seems to have gone unnoticed that F4T2 was a result of a direct request from more than a few members and --------------

[RockyR]

You asked a fair question and what has ensued is a very informative discussion. My honest impression is that the reaction from outwith these shores has grown ever louder and more defensive as the discussion has progressed. I think it was Shakespeare who had a line along the lines of "methinks thou protest too much". Others will no doubt think otherwise!

In fairness, I don't feel that the majority are protesting too much, just trying to explain our 'situation'. When we are being told that one doesn't understand even after several attempts from different individuals, there may be a hint of frustration coming through. It's not that we're trying to justify our feelings to you or anyone... simply trying to explain in an effective manner. However to do that, we must ask others to put themselves in our shoes, which is not always easy to do.

I'll also add my voice to those who respect your opinion and posts, Jock. We may not agree on everything, but you are an asset to this forum for your honest and forthright manner.

[O'Searcaigh]

SlackerDrummer.

I think it was Shakespeare who had a line along the lines of "methinks thou protest too much".

Jock -- funny you should refer to this as I was wondering the same thing about your repeated: "I just don't get it." In the interests of honesty, clarity and understanding I would like to know just what it is you mean by "don't get it?" Is it that you don't understand or is it that you don't accept, or don't like it, or wouldn't do it yourself? There have been many many replies here trying to explain, (in response to your saying "I don't get it") to aid in your better understanding of why a particular respondent does what they do about wearing the kilt. Some do it for a sense of cultural heritage; some do it just for fun (indeed, play) with a whole range of "reasons" in between. For me there is no single answer but rather many depending on "what it is I'm about" at the time, as I suspect is true for the majority of kilt wearers, outwith or not. I enjoy as a hobby making kilt related items (converting tweed jackets, making sporrans, bonnets); I also just find wearing a kilt more comfortable sometimes than wearing trousers. Actually the quote from Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act III, scence II) is: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" and is generally (mis)quoted in reference to something insisted upon repeatedly and so strongly that people suspect the opposite of what one is literally saying. So, For crying out loud, what is it about "it" that you don't "get?" Affectionately, Paul ("O'Searcaigh")
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