Tie with a Prince Charlie

[Nathan]

So, here is a photo of what my brother decided to go with at his wedding. The photo includes the whole family but only the ones in Prince Charlies were in the "wedding party".

We're doing a few things here that are considered wrong on this board.

1) Wearing PCs during the day.(Lots of people wear tuxedos at day time weddings in North America rightly or wrongly). The groom did hire his jacket and he had the choice of prince charlie or prince charlie.
2) We're wearing cream hose. (It was the one colour hose we all already owned and the bride liked how the laces of the ghillie brogues stood out against the fabric.
3) We're wearing tartan flashes rather than hand tied garters or plain coloured ribbon and they're long so a lot of them are showing.
4) The groom is wearing a fly plaid and rouche tie with a three button waist coat to stand out from my brother and I who are wearing bow ties.
5) The bride has her sash pinned on the left shoulder rather than the right, a right usually reserved for the wife of a chief. (whoopsie!)

Since this wedding, I have learned that many on the board would frown upon these choices and many have provided sources and decent reasoning for their opinions in this regard. In the end though, the wedding party innocently did a few things "wrong" and I think we made a handsome looking wedding party nonetheless and all of the guests entusiastically agreed.

If it was my wedding I'd do it differently, but it was a hell of a time and I hope yours is too!

Interestingly and a little off topic, the kilts in Clanranald Modern were hand sewn by my brother and fellow xmarker "Xman" pictured with the gorgeous goat hair sporran, red hose and long tie. The bride's sash was woven by the mother of the bride.

Styles evolve. you almost never see an Prince Charlie with lace Jabot nowadays. If you Google scottish wedding, you'll see many men with rouche ties, pointed collars and Prince Charlie Coatees. Someone doing the research 100 years from now will see this and conclude that this is how it was done at this time in history... so if she really doesn't like bowties, the rouche is a way to go but I'd recommend basic black rather than some loud colour that matches the bridesmaids dresses. Just my two cents.

Cheers!

[Wil]

Not to contradict you nor the advert but I would say that this illustration is a Kenmore not a Montrose, due to the "wings" that fall just above the hips. Or I can respectfully say that in modern times (2013) that. I also look to HRH Prince Charles who's favorite evening Highland Dress Jacket is a green velvet Kenmore and it looks just like the one in the advertisement.
Cheers, Wil

[CDNSushi]

Since this wedding, I have learned that many on the board would frown upon these choices and many have provided sources and decent reasoning for their opinions in this regard. In the end though, the wedding party innocently did a few things "wrong" and I think we made a handsome looking wedding party nonetheless and all of the guests entusiastically agreed.

Well done!

And to any naysayers, I quote King Edward III: Messires, honni soit qui mal y pense ! Tel qui s’en rit aujourd’hui s’honorera de la porter demain, car ce ruban sera mis en tel honneur que les railleurs le chercheront avec empressement.

[creagdhubh]

Not to contradict you nor the advert but I would say that this illustration is a Kenmore not a Montrose, due to the "wings" that fall just above the hips. Or I can respectfully say that in modern times (2013) that. I also look to HRH Prince Charles who's favorite evening Highland Dress Jacket is a green velvet Kenmore and it looks just like the one in the advertisement.
Cheers, Wil

HRH Prince Charles has been seen wearing the Balmoral doublet and not the Kenmore. Even though both doublets appear similar, there is a distinction.

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Balmoral_Doublet.html

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Kenmore_Doublets.html

[Wil]

HRH Prince Charles has been seen wearing the Balmoral doublet and not the Kenmore. Even though both doublets appear similar, there is a distinction.

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Balmoral_Doublet.html

http://www.highlandclans.co.uk/Kenmore_Doublets.html

I stand corrected, that's what happens when you try and work whilst trying to answer blogs.... ;o)

[Tobus]

HRH Prince Charles has been seen wearing the Balmoral doublet and not the Kenmore. Even though both doublets appear similar, there is a distinction.

I've honestly never understood the difference, so I'll take this opportunity to ask, based on the examples you showed. The only difference I can see is the cuffs and epaulets. Is there something more that I'm not seeing?

[Wil]

I've honestly never understood the difference, so I'll take this opportunity to ask, based on the examples you showed. The only difference I can see is the cuffs and epaulets. Is there something more that I'm not seeing?

When I "googled it" this was the differences. Also Balmoral Jackets I have only seen worn with bow tie as the Kenmore you wear a jabot and cuffs with.
The Balmoral Kilt Doublet is a double-breasted jacket traditionally made from velvet. It is usually worn with a belt and black bow tie. It may be worn for both black tie and white tie events.
The Kenmore kilt doublet is a single-breasted jacket, worn buttoned up (no lapels) and without a waistcoat. It is traditionally made from velvet and is always worn with a belt, lace jabot and cuffs. It may be worn on all formal occasions. It is named after the town of Kenmore which lies at the east of Loch Tay

[creagdhubh]

I've honestly never understood the difference, so I'll take this opportunity to ask, based on the examples you showed. The only difference I can see is the cuffs and epaulets. Is there something more that I'm not seeing?

Along with the details you already mentioned...very subtle differences Tobus, and they may indeed vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

According to Highland Clans:

The Balmoral Doublet is a "single breasted" jacket, generally worn buttoned up and without a waistcoat. It is usually worn with a belt, and black bow tie (as shown but these items are not included). Shown here in green velvet. It can be worn less formally unbuttoned - in this case the belt would be worn round the kilt (under the jacket).

Available in Velvet or Barathea.

Similar to a Kenmore but with a flat collar, this jacket is favoured by HRH Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay and he can be seen wearing it here at Balmoral.


The Kenmore Doublet is a "single breasted" jacket, worn buttoned up and without a waistcoat. It is always worn with a belt, lace jabot & cuffs (as shown but these items are not included). Shown here in green velvet. Available in Velvet or Barathea.

The Kenmore Doublet is named after the picturesque town of Kenmore which lies at the east of Loch Tay.

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

I stand corrected, that's what happens when you try and work whilst trying to answer blogs.... ;o)

No worries. Both doublets are very similar.

Cheers,

[Phil]

Kinloch Anderson can make any of their jackets and doublets to one's measurments. They still make hand-stitched kilts too. I should know, as I own a few kilts and a couple of evening jackets/doublets, all bespoke (not off the peg), from Kinloch Anderson.

You must be more privileged than I then. They no doubt still make hand-stitched kilts if you say so but as to bespoke tailoring, they send you to Dege & Skinner in London for that which is not an option that I would support. If they have since changed their business and now have an in-house bespoke tailoring operation then I must apologise. What I was offered, however, was a bought-in item which they did offer to alter to fit but that was in no way bespoke.
I am not sure that the majority of contributors here are fully aware of what true bespoke tailoring really consists of and I have no desire to enter into an argument over the distinctions between what Kinloch Anderson offer nowadays and the true bespoke garments they made in previous times. There is only a limited market for true bespoke tailoring in this throw-away age and few individuals are prepared to pay in excess of £1200 for such a garment when a similar one can be purchased for a fraction of that amount. You can understand, therefore, why they have followed the route of "never mind the quality, feel the width" clothes retailing as it is the sensible way to survive in today's throwaway culture. But please allow me to know the distinction between an 'altered' off the peg garment and a true bespoke one.