Tartan Etiquette

[aonghas]

I don't forget my male lineage, in this case it is from both male and female parents that the lineage travels through. The gist of it, is that both grandmothers are sisters (banjo playing in the background) hence the female aspect (from mother and her mother) of the Scottish connection. Also can trace the aboriginal clan side as Bear clan from at least 400 years, no written record before that.
No disrespect is meant, just trying to make sense of this clan question and resolving it honorably.

[Nile]

In regards to wearing a kilt from mother's or father's side, in the case of a female, is it safe to assume that when a woman gets married, she assumes the tartan of her new spouse (I always assumed so)? Would she still generally wear her "maiden" tartan interchangeably, or no? Would it matter in today's society, where women sometimes either keep their maiden name or hyphenate them?

My wife comes from a 'clan conscious' family (Stewart) and has been wearing kilts since she was a little girl (now passed on to our granddaughters) and all of her adult kilts are Stewart. She originally got me kilted about four years ago with an Amerikilt (utility style) but, when I finally ordered my heirloom kilt (16/8 wool), I ordered it in my clan tartan, Fraser of Lovat (due to arrive tomorrow from BHG). My wife just bought a 13/5 wool, Stewart Dress kilt from Bonnie Heather Green and though I would like to purchase a Fraser kilt for her, I'm fine with her wearing her family tartan. Someday we will get a Fraser kilt for her too.

I purchased a very inexpensive Royal Stewart kilt to wear while awaiting my heirloom kilt. I was OK wearing the Royal Stewart but, once I get my Fraser Tartan (did I say arriving tomorrow, Yea) I'll just wear that or one of the utility kilts.

Nile

[andycwb]

This was never a debate for me. My last name is Cunningham, and I really like the Cunningham tartan.

Despite all the debate, if you don't have a clear connection, I'd pick a tartan you like and can at least rationalise a connection to as your "primary" and any others should at least have a rationale behind them, rather than "I liked the pretty colours".

[MacLowlife]

Geoff,

I misread "ignorant" for "innocent". I am plenty ignorant, as this indicates.

[Antipodean Celt]

The dreaded two hour tartan justification lecture, complete with faded pictures of great aunt Morag's second cousin's cousin, so loved by visitors from outwith these shores just does not happen here with the locals -----thank goodness!

Slightly off topic, but I think Jock raises a very interesting point. We sons and daughters of emigrants to the various colonies can be very interested in tracing our connections back to the old country; indeed, it is often a powerful reason to wear the kilt in the first place. I think it is part of a basic human need to understand where we come from. Not everyone has it as strongly as the members of XMTS perhaps, but a need nonetheless. It is probably a trite observation, but the people who still live where their ancestors have always lived probably do not feel the same need to the same extent, probably because they already know or feel they know their cultural and genealogical origins. Hence the locals feel no need to justify their tartan choice, whereas the diaspora does.


This idea was reinforced for me whilst watching 2 documentaries recently; one on Vietnamese babies that were flown to Australia in 1975 as part of Operation 'Babylift' and the other on Ethiopian refugees. The people involved felt like they 'lacked something' that only a visit to their country of origin, connecting with their relatives who stayed behind, and sampling their culture, could fill. But they were also very happy to come 'home' to Australia by the end of the journey. Similar issues continue to be a problem for many indigenous Australians who were adopted out at birth in a misguided attempt to assimilate them into white Australia. It is a cross-cultural issue.


I understand their need completely having just experienced the compulsive addiction known as 'Ancestry.com'. I now have an even stronger compulsion to visit ALL the places where my ancestors originated, not the just the place from where my father's father's etc came.


Be that as it may, I think the idea is very relevant to this discussion. When your ancestors left the old country 4 or 5 or even more generations ago, sometimes in murky and unrecorded circumstances, any clan affiliation was often broken and left behind as well. Families themselves were often broken up. Language and culture was lost or was changed by 'rose-coloured memory'. When you are removed from your place of origin and are no longer surrounded by a large number of people who are directly related to you, the need to 'reconnect' with your origins can be very strong.


So I think the simple rule of 'wear the tartan of your father's line' is entirely appropriate for people who still live in the UK. I think it is much less straightforward for the Celtic diaspora who feel a strong need to reconnect with the culture of their ancestors by wearing the kilt, but they aren't sure of the connection (because the link was broken long ago), their family histories are complex or simply not known, and there is no cultural context to help them.


Thank goodness for XMTS and the great rabble because you, my friends, help us fill the vacuum.


All the best,


John

[Geoff Withnell]

I never thought you were either!
On the topic, I was of the belief that I was basically Welsh on my father's side and
Irish on my mother's side. So I wore universal/fashion tartans, since I really don't
care for the "Welsh" tartans.
Going though old family stories and records, lo and behold,
my paternal grandmother, Mary Davies (or Davis, spelled both ways, sometimes on the
same document), was NOT, as I thought, a Welsh Davies. She was from "up North" which
in Lancaster means Scotland. Davis/Davies/Daveys is a sept of Davidson, so I wrote to
the Davidson Chief, and joined Clan Davidson USA. I like the Davidson tartans, but that's
not the reason for joining Davidson.

Geoff,

I misread "ignorant" for "innocent". I am plenty ignorant, as this indicates.

[Antipodean Celt]

Bang on Geoff. We cross-posted, but your story is a beautiful illustration of my point. Congratulations on finding your ancestors.

all the best,

John

[Manxstralian]

Be that as it may, I think the idea is very relevant to this discussion. When your ancestors left the old country 4 or 5 or even more generations ago, sometimes in murky and unrecorded circumstances, any clan affiliation was often broken and left behind as well. Families themselves were often broken up. Language and culture was lost or was changed by 'rose-coloured memory'. When you are removed from your place of origin and are no longer surrounded by a large number of people who are directly related to you, the need to 'reconnect' with your origins can be very strong.


So I think the simple rule of 'wear the tartan of your father's line' is entirely appropriate for people who still live in the UK. I think it is much less straightforward for the Celtic diaspora who feel a strong need to reconnect with the culture of their ancestors by wearing the kilt, but they aren't sure of the connection (because the link was broken long ago), their family histories are complex or simply not known, and there is no cultural context to help them.

I agree with you absolutely in this case. It took me a trip to the UK to really understand where I came from, and to feel any kind of real connection with my ancestral roots.

As one without a clan, and a very disparate extended family (exacerbated somewhat by fratricide and family feuds in the 19th century here in Australia), I have never met a person with my surname (Brew) who I was not related to within three generations.

Lacking a family history in one's own country, and lacking the connections in the "old country" to get a sense of where I came from, is it so surprising that I connect with a general "Celticness" as a way to give myself a tradition to cling to?

I'm not sure, but it's something I think about a lot, especially as I get older.

Cheers,

Cameron

[Antipodean Celt]

Lacking a family history in one's own country, and lacking the connections in the "old country" to get a sense of where I came from, is it so surprising that I connect with a general "Celticness" as a way to give myself a tradition to cling to?

I'm not sure, but it's something I think about a lot, especially as I get older.

Cheers,

Cameron

At the risk of furiously agreeing with you Cameron, I too feel a much stronger connection to my Celtic ancestors as a whole, rather than to any particular surname or clan group, hence my decision to wear regional and universal tartans rather than plucking just one surname out of the murky past. I am also thinking about the connections more as I get older. This is something common to many people I think.

all the best,

John

ps - I have located exactly one gggg grandfather who was a Manxman, surname of Dorian or Doran. I am now resisting the urge to get a Manx blue like you.

[rondo]

A side note if I may:
My grandfather was an emigrant Scot [to Canada]. On his deathbed he confessed to having deserted from the RAF. His life, prior to his 33rd birthday is a mystery, the family surname is a mystery, both of which he took with him to his grave. His wife, Madge, my grandmother, was Madge Dunbar, also an emigrant Scot [to the USA]. Knowing this, I contacted Clan Dunbar and requested permission to wear the Dunbar tartan which was granted.
However, I have strong ties to the US Navy [USS PITTSBURGH SSN-720 submarine]. My US Navy Edzell Kilt [thanks Rocky and crew] has become my "go to" kilt. My next tank will very likely be a tweed US Navy kilt.
Honestly I think we, in the USA, over think this.
Rondo