The joys and dangers of Ebay pipes

[WalesLax]

Yes all the usual red flags were there with that set!

Now for something completely different, a very nice new set, purchased but never played, for much less than it would cost new.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17479257486...8AAOSwFdlgusgT

As it happens this set is only an hour's drive for me, so it might be possible to see in it person and pick it up.

I think I'll pass, as I'm well served by my two vintage sets.

Now this is odd, a seller with two listings of Dunbar sets which use the same photos

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13378244821...IAAOSwf0Zgu4gP

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13378244821...IAAOSwf0Zgu4gP

I've messaged the seller asking if it's the same instrument listed twice, or two different bagpipes.

My parade/bad weather set are Dunbar P1’s. They are nice pipes, but I find them harder to manager than my Naill’s or Kintails. That was a great price though - we have a new member of our band that recently made the leap to pipes, and just played in his first parade, who has been asking for people’s advice on pipes, who I did let know about that listing. I do not know if he bid on and/or won them, but other than how plain they are, I like them enough to recommend them to people.

the price on those Henderson’s was pretty incredible as well. I have read a number of people say that there are a LOT of mid range to lower upper range pipes on the market right now, which has driven prices down. I keep looking at the higher end (engraved silver and/or ivory), and clearly that same phenomenon isn’t happening. It’s still always fun to look though!

Rob

[OC Richard]

Some good African Blackwood pipes in the $800-900 range.

1983 Kintails for $800 including shipping; seller doesn't have much feedback https://www.ebay.com/itm/26523307538...MAAOSwyc5g8iCq

Near-new MacRaes for $830 including shipping. https://www.ebay.com/itm/29427301748...AAAOSwbNFg7hTu

Now for something completely different: Dave Atherton has been putting new pipes on Ebay from time to time.

He has two sets up for $1,800 each, which I don't have to tell you is much less than his pipes sometimes go for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27486647148...AAAOSwyoxg7fl4

I know of a few makers of Irish traditional instruments, uilleann pipes and wooden flutes, who have lost their patience with the traditional business model for such instruments:

1) buyer contacts maker to discover wait time and options, then puts in his order, placing a 50% deposit to get on the wait list.

2) buyer buys a "make-do" instrument to play during the wait period.

3) when maker completes the instrument, which could be several months to several years, he contacts the buyer, who then pays the remainder.

This led to most respected makers getting very long wait lists, up to 10 years, at which point the makers "closed their books".

With most (perhaps all) makers, famous players could covertly bypass the queue. There are stories of famous players getting their instrument stolen while on tour and having a new instrument within days, from makers having closed books.

The fact that every instrument they made was bespoke gave the makers virtually no artistic freedom, and they were regularly hounded by buyers wondering why they still hadn't received their instrument which had been promised for several years ago. (For some reason the makers always grossly underestimated how long it would take.)

This has led to several makers closing their books forever, and as soon as they had caught up with their orders, clearing their books, they began a new business model, far less stressful:

1) they make whatever instrument they want to make, and take as long to make it as they please.

2) when an instrument is completed it is put up for sale.

3) if a buyer likes what he sees, he gets a top instrument from a top maker with no wait at all.

[Toxpert]

Sometimes sellers try but fail for accurately listing their items. Here's a set of 1980s Hardies - flat combing/beading with marbleized-imitation ivory. Seller listed this set as Pakistan origin starting at $25. I offered $50 and the pipes arrived in a mostly-empty large box with no packing materials. The imitation ivory had seriously outgassed over the years and split on most of the pieces. Otherwise the set showed no sign of being played. The bag had remnants of old seasoning but otherwise was airtight. Cover and cords pristine. Funds from selling the bag and cover, as is, more than covered the purchase price. The pipes are at RG Hardie right now and being re-fitted with new mounts, rings caps, bushes, sole and a check/touchup of tone chambers (if needed) for a very reasonable cost. The wood has no defects, narrow bores are not the tiny bores, the original finish is unblemished, and the very dark/rich African Blackwood looks nice in the sunshine and black with inside lighting...nice tone to boot.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144086722979

[imrichmond]

Nice find. Some idiot probably told the seller that the Royal Stuart bag cover indicated that the pipes were Pakistani. I've seen this nonsense repeated a number of times on online forums over the years.

[WalesLax]

Some good African Blackwood pipes in the $800-900 range.

1983 Kintails for $800 including shipping; seller doesn't have much feedback https://www.ebay.com/itm/26523307538...MAAOSwyc5g8iCq

Near-new MacRaes for $830 including shipping. https://www.ebay.com/itm/29427301748...AAAOSwbNFg7hTu

Now for something completely different: Dave Atherton has been putting new pipes on Ebay from time to time.

He has two sets up for $1,800 each, which I don't have to tell you is much less than his pipes sometimes go for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27486647148...AAAOSwyoxg7fl4

I know of a few makers of Irish traditional instruments, uilleann pipes and wooden flutes, who have lost their patience with the traditional business model for such instruments:

1) buyer contacts maker to discover wait time and options, then puts in his order, placing a 50% deposit to get on the wait list.

2) buyer buys a "make-do" instrument to play during the wait period.

3) when maker completes the instrument, which could be several months to several years, he contacts the buyer, who then pays the remainder.

This led to most respected makers getting very long wait lists, up to 10 years, at which point the makers "closed their books".

With most (perhaps all) makers, famous players could covertly bypass the queue. There are stories of famous players getting their instrument stolen while on tour and having a new instrument within days, from makers having closed books.

The fact that every instrument they made was bespoke gave the makers virtually no artistic freedom, and they were regularly hounded by buyers wondering why they still hadn't received their instrument which had been promised for several years ago. (For some reason the makers always grossly underestimated how long it would take.)

This has led to several makers closing their books forever, and as soon as they had caught up with their orders, clearing their books, they began a new business model, far less stressful:

1) they make whatever instrument they want to make, and take as long to make it as they please.

2) when an instrument is completed it is put up for sale.

3) if a buyer likes what he sees, he gets a top instrument from a top maker with no wait at all.

I really like Atherton's pipes. I really dislike the fake ivory and aluminum. I know I should care more about the sound, but I also know he has had both silver and holly sets up, and while I missed out on those, I'm waiting to see if anything like that ever comes back up.

[OC Richard]

I really like Atherton's pipes. I really dislike the fake ivory and aluminum. I know I should care more about the sound, but I also know he has had both silver and holly sets up, and while I missed out on those, I'm waiting to see if anything like that ever comes back up.

A guy in my band recently got full imitation ivory Athertons (the MacDougall model) and I have to say the imitation ivory is very nice.

Naill and Atherton (and perhaps others too) can do a thing where they discolour the plastic in a way that makes it look very much like real ivory, where the high points are darkened and the low points stay the pure ivory colour.

(Atherton "aged" imitation ivory)



Personally I don't like the pure cream-coloured plastic they use nowadays. I have two sets, one a 1940s Stark that's just wood with nickel rings and ferrules, and a 1940s supposed Lawrie with nickel ferrules and catalin rings (which have darkened to a glorious dark orange

My set and two other nearly identical sets all said to be made by Lawrie in the 1940s during a supposed period when they switched to rolled seamed ferrules. (The set to left has a replacement bass bottom, my set to centre has a replacement bass midsection.)



About aluminium, I had a Dunbar set full engraved aluminium and you could see those gleaming in the sun all across the field! People would come up and ask "how did you get the silver so bright?" and I would show them the aluminium and let them hold the pipes to see how lightweight they were. People would ask "how often do you have to polish them?" and I would say "never".

I played this set for years in the California and Nevada sun and Scottish rain and never polished them once. The only thing I would do was wipe off my fingerprints with the towel that's always in my pipe case, once in a while.

[OC Richard]

Here's a set where I'm going to grab some popcorn and watch the bidding.

Glorious silver & imitation ivory Gillanders & McLeod

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27493406063...IAAOSwBDRhM6n0

Back in the 1980s a guy in the band bought a new silver & ivory set just like this and the sound was wonderful.

He told me that old Bob Gillanders did the engraving himself, while sitting in front of the telly at night!

[OC Richard]

And here's an obviously Pakistani set, though with a Scottish-made chanter inserted.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32477841891...0AAOSwcLphL~wc

All I can make out from the stamp is "O".

If we knew what letter was before or after the O, or how many letters total there were and in which place the O was, we would probably know.

For example

_ _ _ _ _ O _

could be MacLEOD but

_ O _ _ _ _


could be FORFAR.

[12stones]

An absolutely fascinating thread! I'm no piper and have no knowledge of pipes, but this has sent me down a YouTube rabbit hole that allowed me to watch some amazing craftsman make some beautiful pipes. A couple hours well spent.

[imrichmond]

About aluminium, I had a Dunbar set full engraved aluminium and you could see those gleaming in the sun all across the field! People would come up and ask "how did you get the silver so bright?" and I would show them the aluminium and let them hold the pipes to see how lightweight they were. People would ask "how often do you have to polish them?" and I would say "never".

The aluminum alloy that makers like Dunbar are using is really great. It engraves well, is light and, as stated above, never needs polishing. I had a set of pipes with engraved aluminum alloy ferrules, slides and drone caps for several years. I sold it to one of my students about 3 years ago when I decided I no longer wanted to keep 4 sets of pipes going. They are lovely looking pipes.

The shiniest pipes I have ever seen was a set of brand new pipes that Alex Robertson of Highland House in Woodstock, Ontario, had for sale for at least 2 or 3 years in the mid 1970s. He had them for a long time because there were a couple of problems with them. In the first place, they had full metal mounts: ferrules, slides, projecting mounts and drone caps, which made them very heavy. The main problem, though, was that all the metal had been chromed and so had a brilliant, shiny finish. The shine was enhanced by the fact that the metal was not engraved. When you entered Alex's shop, which was in the basement of his house and very well lit, you felt like throwing up a hand to protect your eyes from the glare thrown off by those pipes, which were always on display. I'm not sure if the pipes came that way from the maker or if Alex had the metal parts chromed at a local automotive body shop. He tried 2 or 3 times to persuade me to buy them, touting the fact that they would never need polishing, but I demurred. I'm not sure he ever did sell them; I certainly never saw them around the highland games in southwestern Ontario. And those were pipes that would certainly have stood out in any massed band! Indeed, on a sunny day, you could probably have seen that glare from the international space station!