Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[JSFMACLJR]

JSFMACLJR: MoR is quite correct concerning the crest and helmet. Since I am a Navy vet, I couldn't exactly go the "pacifist clergy" route, so I do indeed use a helmet in my achievement. As far as the symbolism of my crest, it is my intent that my three children will each inherit my shield and motto...it will then be up to them to each adopt a crest and badge of their own. (My "Americanized" version of differencing:

Lord Lyon would not grant a crest to my late father, an Episcopalian priest, who had served in the Queen's Own Rifles, but rather granted a crest for his lay heirs. The crest was depicted on the Extract of Matriculation, but above his shield was placed the correct ecclesiastical hat.

[Cygnus]

Lord Lyon would not grant a crest to my late father, an Episcopalian priest, who had served in the Queen's Own Rifles, but rather granted a crest for his lay heirs. The crest was depicted on the Extract of Matriculation, but above his shield was placed the correct ecclesiastical hat.

That's very interesting, Sandy. I was under the impression that clergymen could be granted crests, but that they generally chose to display the corded and tasseled ecclesiastical hat instead.

That is good information to know!

[FatherWilliam57]

Lord Lyon would not grant a crest to my late father, an Episcopalian priest, who had served in the Queen's Own Rifles, but rather granted a crest for his lay heirs. The crest was depicted on the Extract of Matriculation, but above his shield was placed the correct ecclesiastical hat.

It is customary for Lord Lyon to do so in the case of Roman and Episcopal priests as they have a system in place which involves the use of the galero (color, number of tassels, etc). A system was devised in Germany for using the galero in the case of Lutheran ministers (in the 1980s, I believe), but it doesn't seem to have caught on. Although some Lutheran clergy have adopted the use of the galero in their achievements, I did not wish to "borrow" or "steel" the traditional aditaments of another denomination, hence the use of the demi-priest with a Luther rose on the chasuble. (Since then, another Lutheran pastor, after consulting with me, has made use of my little innovation, using a different tincture for the chasuble. Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years it will catch on for Lutheran clergy!) For a time, I did "flirt" with the idea of using a biretta and red stole in a similar manner as the galero, but gave up on that in favor of a standard crest and helmet. That train of thought can also be seen in the AHS thread I alluded to above.

Thanks for the interest!

[macwilkin]

It is customary for Lord Lyon to do so in the case of Roman and Episcopal priests as they have a system in place which involves the use of the galero (color, number of tassels, etc). A system was devised in Germany for using the galero in the case of Lutheran ministers (in the 1980s, I believe), but it doesn't seem to have caught on. Although some Lutheran clergy have adopted the use of the galero in their achievements, I did not wish to "borrow" or "steel" the traditional aditaments of another denomination, hence the use of the demi-priest with a Luther rose on the chasuble. (Since then, another Lutheran pastor, after consulting with me, has made use of my little innovation, using a different tincture for the chasuble. Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years it will catch on for Lutheran clergy!) For a time, I did "flirt" with the idea of using a biretta and red stole in a similar manner as the galero, but gave up on that in favor of a standard crest and helmet. That train of thought can also be seen in the AHS thread I alluded to above.

Thanks for the interest!

Personally, it's nice to see the Lutheran Rose being used. I can't say I care much for the ELCA's logo these days. I'm an Episcopalian, but our parish has held joint services and whatnot with one of the local ELCA parishes.

T.

[piperdbh]

I found the blaozn listed in Sir Bernard Burke's Encyclopaedia of Heraldry, or General Armoury of England, Scotland and Ireland . Since my name is English in origin, there would be no clan involved, and it wouldn't fall under Lyon's jurisdiction, would it? I'm not trying to steal someone else's arms; just clearing up some misconceptions about who can use them. Thanks for all the answers so far.



WBHenry,
You wouldn't happen to be ELCA, would you? I graduated from Lenoir-Rhyne College and sang in the A Cappella Choir when we toured in your area several years ago.

[Cygnus]

I found the blaozn listed in Sir Bernard Burke's Encyclopaedia of Heraldry, or General Armoury of England, Scotland and Ireland . Since my name is English in origin, there would be no clan involved, and it wouldn't fall under Lyon's jurisdiction, would it? I'm not trying to steal someone else's arms; just clearing up some misconceptions about who can use them. Thanks for all the answers so far.

...

It wouldn't fall under Lyon's jurisdiction, but England also has an heraldic authority in the College of Arms and the Garter King of Arms. I'm not very familiar with the processes involved with English grants of arms, though I'm sure some of our more knowledgeable members can advise you.

[piperdbh]

Personally, it's nice to see the Lutheran Rose being used. I can't say I care much for the ELCA's logo these days.

I agree, Todd, Luther's rose has more depth and texture, even as a flat drawing, than the cross-and-globe the ELCA uses now, which sort of reminds me of the SBC's cross-and-globe:

I once wanted to make a Luther rose from wooden cutouts, each painted the appropriate color, which would be glued on top of each other so the cross would project from the heart which would project from the rose. I never got around to it.

[FatherWilliam57]

cajonscot: Quite right, I think the ELCA logo is hideous. The local Episcopal (now Anglican) priest in town and I have been doing joint Bible studies and worship services together for the past 8 years (not to mention both of us joining together with the local Roman parish for Stations of the Cross during Lent and Advent Lessons and Carols).

piperdbh: "You've switched pews, but you're still in the same church." Although Lord Lyon would not be involved, the CoA would be. Unless you can prove you are a direct descendent of the original armiger and are entitled to those particular arms, it's a non-starter. There is no such thing as a "family coat-of-arms," at least not the way you are looking at it. England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales have very specific rules concerning the inheritance of arms. In very general terms, a coat-of arms in those country can only belong to one individual at a time (other members of the family who are entitled must difference the arms in one way or another in order to use them). If one wishes to honor one's ancestors from the "old country" through the use of heraldry, then one should also honor the system under which those ancestors were granted their arms. General rule of thumb: If they were not your grandfather's arms, you are probably not entitled to use them (99.9999999 times out of a hundred). Now, if you believe you are in some distant way related to the original armiger, you could use those arms as a starting point for creating arms which you can assume. Can't know for sure until you check it out, but I am going to assume you have no basis to procure a grant from the CoA. (I suggest you check out the section entitled "Guidelines for Heraldic Practice in the United States Recommended by the American Heraldry Society" on their website for some guidance in this matter. Full disclosure: I am the current President of said Society.)

As to your question concerning affiliation: Yes, I am an ELCA pastor. I am a 1979 graduate of Thiel College in Greenville, PA (perhaps you have heard of the Thiel Choir, of which I belonged all four years) and the Lutheran Theological Seminary at Gettysburg in 1990 (made a quick "lay-over" in the U.S. Navy between college and seminary).

Heraldry is a great "science" and a great "art," with a rich and varied tradition throughout the world. Study it, research it, embrace it, and enjoy it!

[piperdbh]

Thanks, Pr. Henry. You've answered my questions. Switching to PM mode now.

[FatherWilliam57]

Okey, fine.