Kilt to prom on Glee tonight in prime time!

[Inchessi]

Yet, pigeon holing a group of people as "Red Necks" is perfectly acceptable.

[saxandpipes]

I know.. shame that red necks aren't protected by some sort of hate-speech laws. I mean, it's not as if they have any choice in the matter. Just like the rest of us, I guess they were born that way too.

[saxandpipes]

You people have failed to offend me.

Nothing said in this thread about gay people comes close to or compares in any degree to what I here regularly from my neighbors and most of my family, sometimes even my friends.

A few minor things said bother me only because they faintly remind me of the hyper-masculine bully garbage that went on in school when and where I grew up. This is probably not what anyone intended in their posts, so I let it go. I probably don't view that issue relating to the kilt from the same prospective as some of you all, and don't quite understand the big deal about the show from your point of view, either.

Guess it's really not my problem...

I'm sorry that you don't have more people around you that you could swap some of your friends for... family, I understand, not easy to change. ;)

Anyway, I want to point out that just because someone has gay friends... and can "say what they like around them" or have gay friends here, who understand "what they really mean" doesn't mean that their words aren't offensive to someone.

Just because we've become desensitised to something, doesn't means it's right...

[saxandpipes]

Anyway, I apologise if the fact that the person who called me a "homo" was a redneck and by stating so in my original post, have offended people by somehow pigeonholing all "rednecks". That was not my intention.

[Charles s]

It saddens me that man has forgotten his roots. When you don't learn from your past, you have no future.

[Bugbear]

The world is full of rude people, and just about everyone is rude at one time or another.

It is when we are not allowed to talk about gay people wearing the kilt on a forum that the problem arises. I can at least understand when someone has uncomfortable feelings about something he or she is not used to encountering.

It is when a kilted gay wedding thread, for example, degenerates into some kind of name calling and is locked down with very little explanation leaving the gay members of the forum wondering if this is a forbidden subject. There was a time this did happened on the forum, and I have seen that thread in what was once called the "Penalty Box." However, since those times, I have seen and participated in kilted gay wedding threads, continuing the example, that went quite well. The forum has gotten better as it has developed and grown.

To me, it is a problem, not when people express their feelings and opinions in a civil way about their worries they might be perceived as gay because a gay person or character is wearing a kilt, it is when, after ten thousand kilted wedding threads, a kilted gay wedding thread pops up, someone flies off the handle over it in a post, and the thread is locked or yanked from the open forum. It is a problem when I feel that I can't respond to a post about LGBT folks or related subjects because it will tick someone off and get the thread locked. I don't think that's a problem here on the forum anymore.

However, if you guys start posting on the forum about dating your girlfriends while wearing a kilt, you probably shouldn't be surprised if a gay guy or two start talking about dating their boyfriends while wearing kilts, or something like that.

[LeeAnne]

I think we need to separate the issue of what people think of gay men from what the writers thought is an appropriate storyline. So what was the writers' take on this? Here's my view: I think the writers chose the character to wear a kilt because he's gay. I don't think they chose the character to wear a kilt because he's manly.

If the storyline had been about any character paying homage to his Scottish roots, fine. Who'd have a problem with that? But that wasn't even vaguely the angle the writers were going for. To them, a kilt is just another riff on depicting way-out, flamboyant, quasi-drag, whatever. Ignorant, lazy and faintly offensive to Scots.

THAT'S what I have the problem with.

[saxandpipes]

I think the writers chose the character to wear a kilt because he's gay. I don't think they chose the character to wear a kilt because he's manly.

If the storyline had been about any character paying homage to his Scottish roots, fine. Who'd have a problem with that? I do have a problem with those who simply choose to use kilts as shorthand for way-out, quasi drag effeminacy.

They certainly didn't choose the character to wear the kilt because he's manly! But I also don't think they put him in a kilt as shorthand way-out way to get someone in drag. They did it because he is ALWAYS pushing the fashion envelope... (other things the character has sported in the past episodes include bow-ties and double-breasted waistcoats...).

Cheers,

Michael

[LeeAnne]

You've nailed my point exactly. Millions of Scots and their descendants have proudly worn the kilt without "pushing the fashion envelope". I rest my case.

As far as I'm concerned the writers know zilch about kilts, and do more harm than good in such a popular show. What would the reaction be if they'd put him in a half-baked Masai tribal get-up?

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

I have been reading all of the reactions with interest.

I must say I find myself relating most to LeeAnne's take on this.As a descendant of Scots,I was brought up with a very clear idea of how highland wear should be worn by those who are wanting to carry on the family traditions.When you are brought up with these standards about you,you cannot help but think when you see someone stepping outside of those standards that you are seeing someone who either has no idea what he is doing or worse,has no care about what he is doing to something that has importance to Scots and their descendants.

To be blunt,when I see someone wearing highland wear,which is now thought of as Scottish national dress,outside of the norms that I was brought up with,I usually think

"He or she is not doing things the Scottish way.If they do not have enough Scottish influence in their family to know what is correct or to care enough about what is correct, then why are they bothering to try to wear it?"

To see things worn in a shoddy or unrecognizably Scottish way still grates on me.The old standards are still what I judge things on first.Eg; A man wears the tartan kilt with the top apron finishing to his right.With a sporran and proper hose.A man wears his plaid on his left shoulder and a lady on her right. Standards like these and others allowed you guidlines to know you were doing it the Scottish way,a way that has stuck to these basic standards for a long time now.

Before, I have posted how I try to celebrate any time someone wears something like a kilt purely for the fact that it may encourage others to wear their kilts the Scottish way,for pride and enjoyment of Scottish customs,more regularly.But still, if someone is not wearing the kilt to the old standards(and these do leave much room for individuality!) I can't help it...my immediate reaction is"that's not right,so they can't really be one of us" In a case like this Glee furor,it's helpfull to have these standards,because to a certain extent,if you see someone outside of them,you know that every other Scot or Scottish descendant who knows their stuff,is probably not seeing him as one of us anyway.If they don't understand,who cares what they think? We come from a culture that sees tartan kilts as manly!Of course most other people are not going to get it!That's the joy of it!We are a part of something unique.When you see it miss construed or presented wrongly,you can just shake your head and feel sorry for them that they are missing out on all the history and meaning that it holds for us.