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6th September 11, 04:27 PM
#81
Jock. Thank you for replying to my questions in the spirit I had asked them in Post #33.
You make a very valid point when you refer to your younger years. The morals, opinions and beliefs of those people we grow up with influences us for the rest of our lives. It becomes so deeply part of us that most of us do not think as to where our believes spring from.
I have a much better understanding of your opinions.
It brings to mind someone said to me so many years ago. "Betrayal of one's self, in order not to betray another, is betrayal none the less...
... It is the greatest of betrayals!"
I admire your stand.
You are a very wise Man.
Again I thank you.
Lang may your lum reek and a wee mouse never leaves your cupboard with a tear in its eye.
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6th September 11, 05:32 PM
#82
Hi Jock,
Here is a quote from your #42 post to this thread.
"No, we were always Scots in England and proud of it, as were my parents. I soon lost my accent though , in spite of my efforts not too! When I was of an age to discover girls the kilt was a REAL asset! It was a bit frowned upon to wear the kilt out of the Highlands -------but try telling that to an 18 year old with an advantage over his mates!"
Now, remember that feeling? The feeling of being different or out of place? That feeling of wanting to be able to identify yourself as part of something?
Now transplant that feeling across an ocean. To a completely different continent. Give the feeling a few years to grow and fester in a place that has a very short history. A place that is so much a jumble of different cultures and different people that no one has a feeling of "this is my ancestral home."
Then perhaps you can begin to understand why we wear the kilt.
And then of course there is the babe magnet thing.
Steve Ashton
www.freedomkilts.com
Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
I wear the kilt because: Swish + Swagger = Swoon.
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6th September 11, 07:03 PM
#83
Jock, thanks for sharing what sounded like a very enjoyable evening. Good information to chew on
Wiz, I think you summed it up perfectly.
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6th September 11, 09:32 PM
#84
Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC
Hi Jock,
Here is a quote from your #42 post to this thread.
"No, we were always Scots in England and proud of it, as were my parents. I soon lost my accent though , in spite of my efforts not too! When I was of an age to discover girls the kilt was a REAL asset! It was a bit frowned upon to wear the kilt out of the Highlands -------but try telling that to an 18 year old with an advantage over his mates!"
Now, remember that feeling? The feeling of being different or out of place? That feeling of wanting to be able to identify yourself as part of something?
Now transplant that feeling across an ocean. To a completely different continent. Give the feeling a few years to grow and fester in a place that has a very short history. A place that is so much a jumble of different cultures and different people that no one has a feeling of "this is my ancestral home."
Then perhaps you can begin to understand why we wear the kilt.
And then of course there is the babe magnet thing.
That sums it up rather well. And then there's the fact that some of us were raised (at least partly) by a native Scot- like my grandmother- who was of the opinion that the culture was too special to leave behind.
Now- your original post, Jock. There is a college in Colorado called Adams State. It's located close to an 1850's period military fort. In the late 1800's, a large part of the fort caught fire. Only the fortified compound survived, and has been preserved as a museum. For years, the archeology students at the college have been excavating the burned ruins, and the excavations are public. You can go to the dig and talk to the students! It's very interesting- I try to go once a summer to see how the the digs have progressed. A couple summers ago, I asked one of the students why she would give up her vacation to do this work as a volunteer- what it was exactly that she was getting out of doing it. Here's what she told me: There is a difference between classroom knowledge and field knowledge. If you have nothing but field knowledge, or nothing but classroom knowledge, then your knowledge is incomplete. These comments of yours very elegantly prove her point:
Originally Posted by Jock Scot
3. Have you ever heard of a civilian box pleated kilt?
Yes: 0
No: 9
12. What type of cloth makes the civilian kilt?(TICK AS MANY AS YOU LIKE)
Wool tartan:9
Tweed: 4
Plain wool, or non tartan pattern:0
Synthetic , plain or patterned, cloth:0
Leather: 0
13. Do you know what a district tartan is?
Yes: 0
No: 9
14. Would you wear one?
Yes: 0
No: 9
16. Would you wear white hose with a civilian kilt?
Yes: 0
No: 9
17. How is the kilt that you are wearing at this moment pleated?
To the sett: 4
To the stripe: 3
Don't know: 2
NOTE! On inspection they were all(9) pleated to the sett!
20. Have you ever discussed the kilt in such detail before?
Yes:0
No: 9
As you said... Just food for thought!
"Two things are infinite- the universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein.
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6th September 11, 10:42 PM
#85
Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC
Hi Jock,
Here is a quote from your #42 post to this thread.
Now, remember that feeling? The feeling of being different or out of place? That feeling of wanting to be able to identify yourself as part of something?
Now transplant that feeling across an ocean. To a completely different continent. Give the feeling a few years to grow and fester in a place that has a very short history. A place that is so much a jumble of different cultures and different people that no one has a feeling of "this is my ancestral home."
Then perhaps you can begin to understand why we wear the kilt.
And then of course there is the babe magnet thing.
Oh dear Steve we are heading back onto thin ice here! With the greatest of respect I did not feel in the least bit out of place as I knew who I was------a Scot. It is very different for a Canadian, American, Australian, South African, wherever as they are not Scots. They may well be Canadians, for example, with Scots roots, but they are not Scots. Any more than I am French(Norman)------I am a Scot with French roots, but a Scot nonetheless.
I do concede the point that as I am not a Canadian, for example, I have absolutely no understanding of how your roots appear to pull you back to your homeland, because to me, your homeland is Canada. I suppose that pull has been diluted over a greater length of time for me.
Equally I can quite understand that a Canadian, for example, does not understand where I stand either. I think it is almost an impossible task to place ourselves in each others shoes as the emotional ties and pulls are completely different. However recognising all this divergence or view is at least helpful,------------------------------------ I think!
Last edited by Jock Scot; 6th September 11 at 11:14 PM.
" Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.
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6th September 11, 11:59 PM
#86
Jock,
I don't think we are on thin ice at all here. I think we are talking about the same thing. Just a bit different perspective of the same thing.
I think your after dinner game was a fun and entertaining way to spend an evening among friends. I thank you for posting the results of your poll.
I would have gotten totally different results from my dinner company.
Steve Ashton
www.freedomkilts.com
Skype (webcam enabled) thewizardofbc
I wear the kilt because: Swish + Swagger = Swoon.
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7th September 11, 08:01 AM
#87
Thanks Jock, excellent food for thought.
I think it would be very interesting to ask any group of kilt-wearing non-Xmarkers those same questions... if anyone ever gets the chance, please post the results.
As for all the kerfuffle about Jock's imagined hegemony: get over it. It doesn't hurt for people to point out that there are many approaches to kilt wearing but there is no need to turn a grain of salt into an ad hominem attack.
And for a guy who, in his heart of hearts, wishes only Highlanders wore the kilt, Jock certainly spends a lot of time on this international forum. In fact I've NEVER read him tell anyone to stop wearing the kilt... his actions speak louder than his words because he is very willing to answer questions and give advice, ergo he is facilitating people's kilt-wearing, not preventing it
Last edited by CMcG; 7th September 11 at 08:28 AM.
- Justitia et fortitudo invincibilia sunt
- An t'arm breac dearg
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7th September 11, 08:08 AM
#88
Originally Posted by CMcG
And for a guy who, in his heart of hearts, wishes only Highlanders wore the kilt, Jock certainly spends a lot of time on this international forum. In fact I've NEVER read him tell anyone to stop wearing the kilt... his actions speak louder than his words because he is very willing to answer questions and give advice, ergo he is facilitating people's kilt-wearing, not preventing it
Agreed.
Have fun and throw far. In that order, too. - o1d_dude
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7th September 11, 12:43 PM
#89
Great set of questions your wife came up with, Jock. I enjoyed the answers and they do make sense to me. Not that I agree 100%
Greg Livingston
Commissioner
Clan MacLea (Livingstone)
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7th September 11, 01:34 PM
#90
Originally Posted by Jock Scot
Yes we all have a common theme, of Scotland, shooting, fishing and the countryside. The kilt is(as you can see) a very minor, but important part of our lives. All of my friends in this survey are well travelled, have more or less the same background with their youth and have been fairly successful in their various field of business. Three were retired military men(two Generals and a Colonel), three legal men( two barristers and a Judge), two farmers and one pop star(who retires every once in a while)!
Those are three things my grandfather (91 years old this October) has instilled in me, shooting, fishing, and the countryside! Beautiful Jock, I love it. Also, that sounds like some minds that would be fun to pry, tons of experience in lively things I am sure!
[-[COLOR="DimGray"]Floreat Majestas[/COLOR]-|-[COLOR="Red"]Semper Vigilans[/COLOR]-|-[COLOR="Navy"]Aut Pax Aut Bellum[/COLOR]-|-[I][B]Go mbeannai Dia duit[/B][/I]-]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"][SIZE="2"]"I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels."[/SIZE][/COLOR] [B]- John Calvin[/B]
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