The Kilt Kops

[DWFII]

Have I missed something here? Is there a hidden thread somewhere with a secret password?

Well, "you snooze, you lose."

No disrespect intended, but seriously, don't you think this is just a little disingenuous? (I'm asking...)

Who is doing all this name calling? Who has been called a Kilt Kop and by whom? When did this ever happen? Can anybody provide a link?

I don't have as many posts as you do but I've been here as long or longer (maybe I just spend more time listening). Everyone seriously involved in this thread, and others going on simultaneously, almost tacitly acknowledge the problem. Matt Newsome postulated a scenario in which the protagonist was accosted by "kilt police." Matt didn't question either the concept or the name calling.

Even the title of this thread...

I myself have seen name calling and the bandying about of "kilt police" to cut short a discussion or characterize other members as somehow not "right thinking" (unlike the rest of us ) over and over again. As recently as several months ago in a discussion I was involved in and where it was used against me...or someone like me.

And I spoke up against it then as I have done since I joined here.

I think there is too much complaining about things that don't exist.

Or too little about things that do.

But then, again, maybe I'm just paying more attention.

[Chas]

I think there is too much complaining about things that don't exist.

Or too little about things that do.

But then, again, maybe I'm just paying more attention.

Well, you carry on with your paying attention and complaining, it is a beautiful afternoon here in Norfolk and I am off to help my wife in the garden.

Regards

Chas

[piperdbh]

Well, you carry on with your paying attention and complaining, it is a beautiful afternoon here in Norfolk and I am off to help my wife in the garden.

Regards

Chas

And that's the best thing I've read in years.

Boys, it's time to turn off the computers and go do something else for a while.

[DWFII]

Those who have great confidence in their own point of view sometimes forget those individuals, and can show their kindness when they too become sensitive to those nuances.

Kindness and that kind of sensitivity are always appropriate!

You make my point as if it were your own...

Let's take another look at the idea of "kilt kop"...or, better yet, Matt's scenario of the rude fellow upbraiding an "innocent."

Perhaps the fellow commenting on front pleats is simply a kind and generous elder statesman of the kilt world. I suspect...postulate...the recipient of that sage advice is nervous and tense and consequently has a high startle index. He bridles at any suggestion. He's new, he may get over it or may not. He probably shouldn't be wearing a kilt...just for his own peace of mind.

I've got even money that 80% of the imbroglios that occur in these situations are more because the "victim" has responded defensively and from a position of insecurity--has "lashed out" at an simple and even generous attempt to help--than any real or intended insult.

And things escalate from there.

And yes, there's always that missing 20%...in any human society..

I am not naturally one who scmoozes people but I have to say that it is telling that people like Jock Scott (our resident "elder statesman") or Matt Newsome can give advice...sometimes quite blunt advice...without ever resorting to calling people who wear white hose or their pleats in front "kilt cretins."

But those who fell less than comfortable...and little joy...while wearing the kilt (for whatever reason, including being new to it all) seem to see kilt police everywhere.

[DWFII]

Actually, I'd have a much different attitude about all this if I believed for even one moment that the woolly mammoth or saber toothed tiger had been hurt, much less driven to extinction, by opinion.

Beyond all that...think about what's really at stake in all this, folks...

On one hand, we have a mind set that seeks to perpetuate the idea that calling people names or characterizing them as rigid, or complaining, or somehow illiberal is OK when rationality fails or deserts you.

And on the other, a group of people (perhaps too few to notice) who declare that real respect, real civility, real gentlemanly behaviour never includes disparaging other people just because they disagree with you.

[Father Bill]

And on the other, a group of people (perhaps too few to notice) who declare that real respect, real civility, real gentlemanly behaviour never includes disparaging other people just because they disagree with you.

Absolutely correct. No disparagement ever because of disagreement. Concern however, when that disagreement is expressed in terms that could (even inadvertently or unintentionally) cause hurt.

[CMcG]

<snip>
There are no, and will not be any, Kilt Kops on X Marks.

Xmarks is a great online community but it is also the cyber-property of Steve Ashton. He fired this shot over the bows and anyone who doesn't like his main point -- that this an inclusive place for all kilt-wearers -- should go grind their axe elsewhere.

I chose the quote above to highlight the fact that no-one is being called names. Steve is very clear that there are no "Kilt Kops" on Xmarks... the warning was made to remind people to steer clear of a certain type of behaviour that is not acceptable.

In my humble opinion, saying that there are not to be any Kilt Kops is a way of improving discussion. It means that people must explain and justify their opinions if they wish to be persuasive. There is no recourse to discussion ending statements that read like inviolable laws.

[Chirs]

Xmarks is a great online community but it is also the cyber-property of Steve Ashton. He fired this shot over the bows and anyone who doesn't like his main point -- that this an inclusive place for all kilt-wearers -- should go grind their axe elsewhere.

I chose the quote above to highlight the fact that no-one is being called names. Steve is very clear that there are no "Kilt Kops" on Xmarks... the warning was made to remind people to steer clear of a certain type of behaviour that is not acceptable.

In my humble opinion, saying that there are not to be any Kilt Kops is a way of improving discussion. It means that people must explain and justify their opinions if they wish to be persuasive. There is no recourse to discussion ending statements that read like inviolable laws.

I think that, CMcG, has brought things into focus for me. As is my wont, I've been trying to read the underlying assumptions in this thread and I think you have hit it. "To those who think they have the authority to command: knock it off; you don't. To those who feel put upon by others: relax; you're not."

If you were in the street and a police officer told you to do something, you need to do it. That person has the authority to command and has no need to explain. No matter how wrong that person may be, you need to do as you're told without question. Such a person does not exist on this board.

There are people on this board who express authority when it comes to kilts. Some have this authority through years of study, while others have come by it through lived experience. The two who come immediately to mind tend to offer clear opinions when it comes to the kilt but, in my experience, they do not command but rather, they offer with an explanation - clearly not Kilt Kops.

There are also those who offer (although, sometimes, what they do is more forceful than the word 'offer' would suggest) opinions without the benefit of explanation. These people might want to re-read posts before submitting them.

There are people on this board who express dismay at postings that seem to be telling them that they are not welcome (and perhaps many more who feel this way but do not express it). These people may wish to take to heart that, here, there is only one authority and he has clearly stated to one and all that he grants no authority to command to any one else. He, alone, has commanded that all are equal. So, if you are feeling the urge to command, re-think you position. And if you are feeling commanded, re-think your position. "There are no Kilt Kops on this board."

I may be completely off-base but that seems to be the message, so far as I am understanding it today.

[DWFII]

"There are no Kilt Kops on this board."

Exactly what a lot of us have been saying for years---there is no such thing as "Kilt Kops."

But do a search for "Kilt Police" (in quotations) on this forum...nevermind the variations on the theme... and you will get over 500 returns.

It appears that some folks don't get it.

[AN COIGREACH ALBANNACH]

I must say the latter half of this thread is so much more positive than the first half.Early on some of the posts made me wonder what all the fuss is about,but the latter half seems to have been firmly steered in the right direction by good men saying,

"Ho! A forum is for debate,for comparison of differing ideas and views.If you're too precious for hearing a viewpoint that might not be your own,then pick up youre bat and ball and go home!"

As adult men,and women,we should all know by now that to expect to agree all the time is laughable.The beauty of this forum is we are all allowed to reply in a reasoning manner to any view we see.Why sook when you can just jump on the thread and let be known that there is a different view?That's what makes it so interesting!