History of the Kilt

[phil h]

"I'm workin' on him seeing the error of his ways "

Wow Phil, you sure have your work cut out for you. After Robbie and the 5 million (plus) residents of Scotland, you can start on 20 million (plus) people of Scotish decent living elsewhere...no small task!

noone said it would be easy

[Graham]

Phil, you may not agree with or appreciate the history stuff that Robbie has posted, but as you can see from the replies, many here do.

Robbie did preface his posts saying that if you don't like history, don't read on!

All the same, there is no need for rudeness of that kind, I for one don't believe it has a place here.

If you just want to abuse people, there are sites that will tolerate that.

[Doc Hudson]

There are some things Graham and disagree about, and in debate, I've been known to use a sledgehammer to swat a gnat, but I think we are in agreement here.

Phil, I think you owe Robbie an apology for the personal insult you made. I'm not going to wade in on which of you are correct, because I don't know. I just think we should keep our arguments civil.

It is one thing to call a mate an ignorant old bugger over a couple of pints where he can see your grin or hear the laughter in your voice. It is quite another to call some one stupid on line where there is nothing to mitigate the words. Robbie has taken your comments as a serious insult and might well be leaving the forum. You didn't change his mind.

As my Mom used to tell me, "Play nice!"

[phil h]

Phil, you may not agree with or appreciate the history stuff that Robbie has posted, but as you can see from the replies, many here do.

Robbie did preface his posts saying that if you don't like history, don't read on!

All the same, there is no need for rudeness of that kind, I for one don't believe it has a place here.

If you just want to abuse people, there are sites that will tolerate that.

I do appreciate it, IF you read my post propper you would have got that.I do like history, facts not personal feelings.and I was not trying to be rude.
sorry if this upsets you.
please go back and read my post, all of it.then feel free to "HAVE A GO"

[phil h]

There are some things Graham and disagree about, and in debate, I've been known to use a sledgehammer to swat a gnat, but I think we are in agreement here.

Phil, I think you owe Robbie an apology for the personal insult you made. I'm not going to wade in on which of you are correct, because I don't know. I just think we should keep our arguments civil.

It is one thing to call a mate an ignorant old bugger over a couple of pints where he can see your grin or hear the laughter in your voice. It is quite another to call some one stupid on line where there is nothing to mitigate the words. Robbie has taken your comments as a serious insult and might well be leaving the forum. You didn't change his mind.

As my Mom used to tell me, "Play nice!"

I did not use the word stupid.please don't put words in my mouth.
I thought it was a good place to air my points, have a bit of healthy banter. but I think it's turning into a witch hunt.
sorry robbie, I thought I knew all the people on here well enough to be able to voice my opinion to another like grown men, but as you see, some people still act like kids, putting words in my mouth, reactimg without reading the posts I made in full.
like I said, I would be the frist to offer my hand and buy you a pint if we ever met.

[wolfgang]

My ancestors originate from Friesian and Danes mostly. Even if it is possible that I have one or two genes from the Celts implemented, I am relaxed on the subject of this thread - "History of the Kilt".

I follow this discussion with much interest. Different standpoints are very useful. I do not judge or sentence senses, emotions or pride. We are adults (most of us). We do not need to be reared (it's too late anyway). If someone gets upset, he will be back when becalmed. There are not that may forums like X-Marks the Scot.

Let's get back to the subject, please

[Miah]

History is a very odd thing to try to determin.
being that nobody was alive during the time when people decided to wear a pleated kilt, it is hard to say what the history is.
I honestly have a interest in it (history of kilts)
but I also belive that for all i know the kilt was invented in China during the Tsung dynasty.
History is allot like pollitics in that if people feel pasionate about it there will be fights and quarls over it.
My fater told me "son if you want to keep your friends, never talk polliticts, religion, or history with them,
keep it to Chics and boos."

[Alaskan]

We may never know 100% of the history of the kilt, but we can look at the evidence and come to a reasonable conclusion.

Robbie provided a great deal of evidence that makes the reasonable conclusion that the little kilt was not invented by Rawlinson.

For someone to continue to reasonably argue that Rawlinson did invent the little kilt would require them to come up with evidence that is contrary to the evidence Robbie provided.

Phil, you accused Robbie of being unable to see any point of view other than his own, however, you provide no evidence to support your view, whereas Robbie has provided a wealth of evidence to support his view. The bitterness and having a chip on the shoulder that you accuse Robbie of are in fact, the way you are reacting. You say that you could provide proof that Rawlingson invented the little kilt and Robbie would not accept it, but you don't have any proof. Robbie, on the other hand has provided proof that Rawlingson did not invent the little kilt and you are the one who will not accept it.

Educated arguments are good, and quite necessary if any of us are going to learn anything. However when you are faced with a great deal of evidence to show that your view is incorrect, but you don't provide any evindence to support your own view, instead you just say "I am right and you are wrong," that is no longer an educated argument and is simply arguing for the sake of argument. Arguing just to argue is pointless and a waste of other people's time.

[Graham]

Phil I am sorry if I misread your post, it seemed rude to me, but that is the point of Doc's post, things are easily misunderstood in forums like this, we only have the written word, no body language. I've said worse to a persons face while winking the eye, here one has to be more careful and more forgiving.

IMHO

[Doc Hudson]

I did not use the word stupid.please don't put words in my mouth.
...
like I said, I would be the frist to offer my hand and buy you a pint if we ever met.

Pardon me Phil, but if I told someone I thought them to be good material for "President of the Flat Earth Society," I'd be insinuating that I thought them to be, stupid, foolish, or complete idiots. I figured you meant the same thing, even if it was meant in a joking way. On line, we can't see the grin or wink.

From your comment about offering a hand and buying a pint, I figured you did not intend the jibes to be taken seriously. But they were and you gave serious offense to a valued member of this group.

I still think you owe Rob an apology. And if you can come up with legitimate refutation of the evidence Rob offered in his essay, please trot it out so we can see you put it through its paces.