The Scottish Wildcat Tartan thread: conceived here on X-Marks!

[Alan H]

I messaged Scotweb today regarding a 20-30 yard order of Wildcat tartan to be done by DC Dalgliesh. Let's see what comes of that. I figure give it until maybe Tuesday.

I also asked my friend Mirjam if she'd consider hand-weaving a piece two setts wide by three setts long. We shall see.

[McMurdo]

Great work Alan.

[Benning Boy]

Is there a pressing reason the tartan must be woven by a nominally Scottish company? Why Dalgliesh?

Marton Millis, albeit an English firm, but one of the largest tartan wavers in the world, could do the job faster and at less cost, with the easy option of getting it done in p/v if this thing takes off. Hannah, Marton's designer, is great to work with, and hasn't charged me a thing for her ideas. She could do absolutely perfect CADs of color scheme variations, the kind you could lay on the finished tartan and they'd be a dead match.

Of course, MM tartan would be woven double width, are you thinking the new design should only be woven single width?

Without going back to look, I think someone said above his price limit is around $90 a yard/meter. That's about as far as I'm willing to go, too. I can afford, but won't pay Dalgliesh's prices, which for a custom weave, counting in hidden costs, are really pretty high.

I messaged Scotweb today regarding a 20-30 yard order of Wildcat tartan to be done by DC Dalgliesh. Let's see what comes of that. I figure give it until maybe Tuesday.

I also asked my friend Mirjam if she'd consider hand-weaving a piece two setts wide by three setts long. We shall see.

[Theyoungkiltman]

I agree with benningboy on having marton weave it, the less it costs the more can be contributed to wildcat conservation...

[Benning Boy]

Just for example, I'm committed to having done a bespoke weave of Dalrymple of Castelton #2. Dalgliesh says they will custom weave this tartan in single width for GBP63 per meter, but they do not mention anywhere on the website that I have found that there are additional set-up costs and such that actually will make the final cost of the fabric higher than this.

On the other hand, Marton Mills charges, according to the 1 October 2013 price list, which was still in effect only a few weeks ago, GBP39 per meter for bespoke double width Jura weight fabric, with the minimum order being 11 meters.

So, you can get 11 meters of bespoke double width tartan from Marton Mills for GBP429. The same quantity, roughly, of single width tartan from Dalgliesh, 22 meters of single width fabric, would GBP1,386. From Dalgliesh you get 15 ounce fabric, from MM you get 16 ounce fabric, so I'm not comparing apples to oranges, you get pretty much the same thing from either mill. For the sake of argument, let's say 11 meters of double width, or 22 meters of single width is enough to make three 8-yard kilts. You do the math.

It says right up front on the MM price list:

"Due to the nature of the weaving process, it is not always possible to weave the exact amount required. To achieve the minimum length ordered, it may be necessary to produce up to 15% more and the customer must be prepared to accept such additional quantity at the same price."

Dalgliesh offers no such advisement online.

I said above I consider the upper limit of price for me is $90 per yard/meter. (I'm not going to haggle over three inches.) The Dalgliesh price works out to be $104 per meter, not including hidden costs. The MM charge of GBP39 per meter works out to be, at today's rate, $65 per meter. I like the last price better. Just doing the figuring in my head, I recently bought a single width length of rare tartan, about as bespoke as bespoke can get, and only spent around $85 per yard. See why I'd rather not deal with Dalgliesh?

I'm just testing the waters as a buyer of bespoke tartan, so my numbers may be total bunk, but I do believe a better deal can be had through MM. Even marked up to a significantly higher price, to take in more for the cats, MM tartan can still be sold for less than Dalgliesh, as I see it. Generally the way things work is the lower the price the greater the volume of sales.

Anybody, feel free to shoot this full of holes. I want to learn more about the process, as I have a fund raiser of my own in mind.

USAKilts and Freedom Kilts are to of MM's biggest customers. Perhaps Rocky or Steve can critique my contention.

[Carlo]

I think the idea was, that the Scottish Wildcat Tartan (endangered) should be woven by a Scottish Tartan Weaving Mill (endangered).

[Jock Scot]

Late to the party ,sorry. In my non artistic view I don't think the present design has the most eye catching thing of a wildcat. Thick black stripes! For me I would expect thick black stripes, so how about cutting out the yellow/green/detail and have depending on sett size------- ten inch would be good-----but say two inch black stripes going both ways and then perhaps alternate grey and green criss- crossing midway between the black stripes.

Or, instead Of a brown background , how about grey? Again with thick black stripes, with green and brown narrow stripes between the black ones?

[Alan H]

As it's a Scottish environmental issue, it only seems natural to have a Scottish mill weave the cloth.

MY original thought was Knockando, simply because I've been there, loved the place and they had the capability. The notion of the "endangered mill" weaving the cloth for the "endangered cat" had a certain appeal. BTW, I heard back again from Knockando and they are not interested in producing a Wildcat tweed, either. Pity, as their tweed are gorgeous.

Dalgliesh was my next call because Nick Fiddes is a member here at X Marks the Scot, I've personally been to the mill and now know one of the weavers by name (though I can hardly say that we're "friends".) I also know that DC Dalgliesh has working double-wide looms, not just single-wide. The *WILDLY GUESSTIMATED PRICE*...and this was a wild, crazy estimate on my part was for double-wide cloth, not single-width. However, it's really too early to be talking much about price as that skirts the issue of X Marks Rule #10, as Steve pointed out to me, early on in this thread. Also, imagine how you would feel, if you were a mill owner and a member of X Marks the Scot, and a tartan was designed on X Marks and you weren't even given a chance to consider weaving it? I think it's only right that Nick should have a shot at pitching a proposal for weaving this, if he's interested.

This whole thing is not a project to see how much tartan I can get woven, at the lowest price. Of course that's what we talk about here because this thread is about THE TARTAN. However, there's more to the whole idea than THE TARTAN. Would we like to see DC Dalgliesh continue as a business? I would. I've been to the mill. I've seen the inside. I've seen how bare their outgoing orders shelves are. Can we help DC Dalgliesh at the same time that we help the cats? Maybe. Let's see what Nick has to say, eh? I heard back from Scotweb this morning, so we shall see. Give Nick a chance to respond. It's not even been two weeks, yet.

There have been two other suggestions for smaller Scottish mills proposed to me and if it doesn't work out with DC Dalgliesh.

Regarding Polyester Viscose..... I love Marton Mills polyester-viscose tartan cloth. However, MM will need a Seriously big order of the cloth to do a run. When enough X Markers sign up to ensure an order of at least 80 meters of PV, then I'll be interested.

Also, there is one guy doing the inquiring for this, between whatever else he's doing at work. That's Alan H, and I'm happy to do it. However, I refuse to "dilute" the original order for kilting wool tartan by introducing umpty-ump options, each of which will have to be produced by another mill.

That said, the dream is for this to take off, bigtime. You know, I want to see Kate Middleton or Emma Watson parading around in a Scottish Wildcat Tartan outfit while the paparazzi snap pictures and ask questions! I hope that the release of this tartan, with associated publicity (which I'm also working on, but can't talk about in this thread) will grab some news space, getting publicity for the Cats and for the Haven. If that happens,and orders come roaring in, then it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if MM expressed interest in weaving a couple of bolts in PV.

But first things, first. There are no weaving commitments, yet, eh?

[David]

Late to the party ,sorry. In my non artistic view I don't think the present design has the most eye catching thing of a wildcat. Thick black stripes! For me I would expect thick black stripes, so how about cutting out the yellow/green/detail and have depending on sett size------- ten inch would be good-----but say two inch black stripes going both ways and then perhaps alternate grey and green criss- crossing midway between the black stripes.

Or, instead Of a brown background , how about grey? Again with thick black stripes, with green and brown narrow stripes between the black ones?

I like the idea of the thick black stripes to reflect the distinctive markings of the cats tail

[Benning Boy]

I see your "endangered" point. I don't have a specific issue with it, it's just that my level of interest stops at $90 per yard, which leaves me standing south of the River Tweed, pretty much in the backyard of some of my oldest documented ancestors.


The idea of doing business with an X Marks advertiser is fitting. However, I know one prominent X Marks advertiser who would likely advise you in private, as I have been advised twice, to not do business with Dalgliesh. There must be a reason for that. My sense is it has to do with quality control.

And also, I too like the idea of bolder black stripes, as long as the black isn't overwhelming.

I have no intention of dealing behind the scenes with anyone on this project. I'm totally behind you, AlanH, and will follow this with great interest.