Jacobite era kilt hose - knitted or sewn ?

[Smallpipe]

Hello all !
I have a question about kilt hose of the 1740 Jacobite era ....
Those who could afford hose, did they only have hose sewn from tartan fabric ? Or did knitted hose in that period already existed ?
Thank you in advance for any information !
Smallpipe

[Iain Ruaidh]

I have no historical knowledge about socks in Scotland but Mr Google says archaeologists have found a knitted sock dating back to 1500BC in Denmark, so I'd expect they also existed in Scotland.

[DCampbell16B]

The painting John Michael Wright's portrait of Lord Mungo Murray about 1680 seems to show a seam on the back of his right leg. While it could be a knitted seam, it is more likely a seam in cut cloth. I did reenactments of the period you are interested in back in '70s and '80s and that was the best we could come up with from images. I have no way of knowing whether cut cloth for hose at that time was a heavier weave.

The National Museum of Scotland used to have a reprint of the clothing of John Hynde Cotton, whose trews are in their collection. I have misplaced my copy to check, but my reconstruction has a seam down the back as well.

I'm not aware of any other paintings that show a seam detail.

[Steve Ashton]

Knitting , crochet, nailbinding etc. go back almost as far as humans. Certainly before we began recording history.
The National Museums of Scotland has an artifact knitted sock that goes back 1500-1700 years.

The knitting frame, a mechanized knitting machine to knit stockings, using bearded needles, goes back to 1589.
During the 1600's and 1700's thigh high silk stockings were worn by fashionable women. Knee length silk, cotton, and lindsey/woolsey hose were readily available in men's shops all over the isles.

Think of the history book images of Pilgrims and Quakers in the new world.

By the mid 1700's think the images in history books of American Revolution fashion.

Think about images of Napoleonic war sailors.
All of these wore knit stockings with knee length breeches.

There were knit socks with patterns. Such as the Gairloch pattern from early to mid 1700's. Some of our members are knitting them themselves as evidenced by recent threads.
Diced hose and Argyle hose are best and easiest done with knitting. Knitting is an elastic medium that is perfect for stockings.

So knit hose were around. As were sewn hose. Most evidence suggests that the majority of stockings were knit however. Unless someone has empirical data I would guess kilt hose were most commonly knit.

[figheadair]

Knitting , crochet, nailbinding etc. go back almost as far as humans. Certainly before we began recording history.
The National Museums of Scotland has an artifact knitted sock that goes back 1500-1700 years.

The knitting frame, a mechanized knitting machine to knit stockings, using bearded needles, goes back to 1589.
During the 1600's and 1700's thigh high silk stockings were worn by fashionable women. Knee length silk, cotton, and lindsey/woolsey hose were readily available in men's shops all over the isles.

Think of the history book images of Pilgrims and Quakers in the new world.

By the mid 1700's think the images in history books of American Revolution fashion.

Think about images of Napoleonic war sailors.
All of these wore knit stockings with knee length breeches.

There were knit socks with patterns. Such as the Gairloch pattern from early to mid 1700's. Some of our members are knitting them themselves as evidenced by recent threads.
Diced hose and Argyle hose are best and easiest done with knitting. Knitting is an elastic medium that is perfect for stockings.

So knit hose were around. As were sewn hose. Most evidence suggests that the majority of stockings were knit however. Unless someone has empirical data I would guess kilt hose were most commonly knit.

Steve,

Although no highland hose survive from the 18th century, certainly not from the time of the '45, there are several references to both military and civilian hose cloth that make it quite clear that cloth was issued for hose. Practically speaking, a good worsted cloth will easily out wear knitted hose which might have been one reason why their use persisted.

[Steve Ashton]

Steve,

Although no highland hose survive from the 18th century, certainly not from the time of the '45, there are several references to both military and civilian hose cloth that make it quite clear that cloth was issued for hose. Practically speaking, a good worsted cloth will easily out wear knitted hose which might have been one reason why their use persisted.

That may very well be true. But it is well documented that everywhere else knit stockings were the norm.

[OC Richard]

To my mind, the existence/popularity of knit hose in plain/solid colours isn't necessarily relevant to the tartan hose seen in the old paintings of Highlanders. In other words we might be talking apples & oranges.

It's long been my understanding (though I can't put forth any evidence at the moment) old Highland hose were made of loom-woven cloth yardage.

The quite complex tartans seen in some early hose does suggest woven fabric.

I suspect that such hose would cost a fraction of labour-intensive hand-knit hose. And soldiers could be issued the cloth and make their own, just as they did with their kilts.

Back in the late 1970s I made my own pair of such hose, using the pattern published in Sketchbook '76 (a guide to American Revolutionary War clothing). They were fairly quick and easy to make and were very sturdy.

It's hard for me to imagine the practicality of knitting hose like this:

[DCampbell16B]

The second painting appears to show a seam down the back of the left leg. It may even be modified to be decorative.

[figheadair]

The Highland Clothing Material Purchases by Lt. John Robertson, 42nd Regt., July 28, 1758 included: To 2 yd best red & white tartan at 2S 6d pr yd. A clear reference to diced cloth for hose.

This 1757 Order for the 77th (Montgomerie's) makes reference to red and white yardage for hose.


Finally, and notwithstanding the label, these hose are Waterloo era/

[Steve Ashton]

I was simply replying to the original question -

"Hello all !
I have a question about kilt hose of the 1740 Jacobite era ....
Those who could afford hose, did they only have hose sewn from tartan fabric ? Or did knitted hose in that period already existed ?
Thank you in advance for any information !
Smallpipe"

I interpreted the question as being -
did they only have hose sewn from tartan fabric ? Or did knitted hose in that period already existed ?