when the change

[kilted redleg]

Does anyone know when the third buckle was added to the kilt. I know you can order kilts with just two buckles, when did three become the norm?

[Steve Ashton]

The way it was explained to me is that the period between the Crimean war and WWI was a time of great change in the wearing of the kilt. Before, there was little standardization in how a kilt was made or worn. You could see kilts pleated all around. Kilts fastened with fabric or ribbon ties. And held on with nothing at all other than friction or perhaps pinned with a blanket pin. (What we today think of as the classic diaper style kilt pin.) Many military kilts would be made from the full width of fabric. About 27 inches.
By the time of the Boer war we began to see the bottom of the kilt become sort of standard at the top of the knee cap. So the top of the kilt often ended up very high. This was almost always covered by the tunic which had a belt at the anatomical waist which also held the kilt up.



You would not normally be able to tell how high the top of the kilt was because of the tunic, but if you ever saw the kilt without the tunic you would see this very high waisted style. (It was thought at the time that for good health you should keep the kidneys warm.)



As Leather straps and the two-pronged buckles began to be seen on kilts (Around WWI) there was often one strap and buckle up at the top of the kilt on the right and one at the anatomical waist on the right to cinch in at the anatomical waist. This was the same as where the belt was worn over the tunic.



Since WWi the fabric kilts were made from began to be cut to the length of the wearer. But there was still a strap and buckle cinching it in at the anatomical waist, this was just a couple of inches below the top of the kilt due to the cut fabric and better tailoring.

But tradition said there were two straps on the right side. This caused what used to be the waist strap to be lowered to the hip. As this strap was not covered by the belt it took on a purely decorative function.

Many kilt makers today have learned that the hip strap is so often worn incorrectly that it was better to leave it off. Too many guys were thinking that the hip strap was functional and were tightening it. Which caused distortion of the apron.

So the hip strap and buckle are just left off.



Today if you have a Traditional kilt, made In Accordance With (AKW) "The Art of Kiltmaking" you will have three straps and buckles. Two on the right and one on the left. The top straps and buckles are covered by the jacket or the belt so are not seen.
The hip strap is decorative and while it is buckled, it is not cinched but fastened very loosely.

This -



Or this -

[figheadair]

Does anyone know when the third buckle was added to the kilt. I know you can order kilts with just two buckles, when did three become the norm?

I cannot think of seeing an example before the 1960s, possibly later.

[OC Richard]

The problem is that there just aren't many photos showing the tops of kilts due to both soldiers and civilians nearly always wearing jackets or waistcoats.

Steve has shown two of the four I've come across, here they are



As Steve said the soldiers were issued a full-width length of cloth. In the old days men made their own kilts, I'm assuming under the direction of the Regimental Master Tailor.



I saw a WWII photo where you can see a piper's kilt fastened at the waist with blanket pins. I'll try to find it.

Officers of course had personal tailors and the fastening would be whatever sort each officer asked his tailor to do.

My theory (for which I have no evidence) is that the 3rd buckle originated on high-rise military kilts due to the wide expanse of fabric.



Certainly we can see on modern civilian kilts, as the waists get lower and lower, the two buckles getting closer and closer together, and the 3rd buckle becoming more and more without purpose.

[Tobus]

I saw a WWII photo where you can see a piper's kilt fastened at the waist with blanket pins. I'll try to find it.

This is not the photo you're referencing, and I don't know what year it's from, but ...blanket pins indeed.

[OC Richard]

What a great photo!

That looks WWI to me, the biggest clue being the man background left wearing a gask mask bag as an ad hoc sporran.

I know some Canadian kilted units issued Other Ranks with leather sporrans in WWI, but it seems that few if any British kilted regiments did. Thus the common use of gask mask bags.

And in WWII it's generally only pipers, or the occasional officer, who are seen wearing kilts in the war zone.

[DCampbell16B]

Looks like the center man has a gas mask bag as well.

But can we talk about the 2nd man from the right and his belt? It looks like a collection of cap badges, with the Argylls front and center, and either the Seaforths or Gordons to the right.

[stickman]

You are right D CAMPBELL, looks like he also has a clay pipe in his mouth. We used to put badges on our belts when we were kids, wish I had kept them.

[OC Richard]

But can we talk about the 2nd man from the right and his belt? It looks like a collection of cap badges, with the Argylls front and center, and either the Seaforths or Gordons to the right.

That belt is a beautiful example of "trench art".

Those decorated belts are called "trophy belts" by modern collectors.

Here's an article about one https://www.collectorsweekly.com/sto...wi-trophy-belt

[stickman]

Speaking of gas masks, there was still a fear of gas attacks during WW2. I remember going to school with my gas mask. Little kids had masks that looked like Mickey Mouse. They were not supposed to be as scary as the regular masks. Fortunately we never had to use them or the air raid shelter behind the school. Where we lived was a little out of range for bombers. There was a lone raider used to fly over now and again but he was not very effective. He only killed one guy I know of. There was a dance in a little village and someone got careless and let some light show. The raider saw it and let one bomb go. It hit the dance hall dead center went through the roof and drove one guy right through the floor. And didn’t explode. He was the only one killed. He was my dad’s helper’s brother on the railroad.