MacPherson men wearing ribbons untied/trailing?

[Ashworth]

Hello all,

I've seen a few messages in this forum from MacPhersons saying that they left their Balmorals' ribbons untied or trailing because such would be the tradition for MacPherson men.

But I haven't found any information pertaining to it.
Do any of you have an idea or is it a urban legend?

I'm not a MacPherson by any means, but I find it interesting.

Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
Arthur

[Troglodyte]

There are many conventions of this kind, which are thought to be ancient traditions but which have no historic evidence to support them, but it may well be that certain clans adopted ribbon-tying styles that have endured.

I learnt at a young age that the bonnet ribbons tied or trailing was the difference between Highland and Lowland - Highlanders always tied theirs. It is entirely different with Glengarries, as they are made to be always trailing.

Regimental conventions have influenced civilian styles considerably during the latter part of the 20th century, and it is possible that certain Macpherson ex-servicemen retained their regimetal ribbon conventions after returning to civilian life.

Perhaps Clan Macpherson have information on this, if it is a clan tradition.

[Bruce Scott]

According to Post #1 here by creagdhubh:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...lmorals-58009/

"Just to mention again, the men in my clan, the Clan Macpherson, traditionally do not tie their ribbons in a bow. That is why all of my bonnets that I currently own are in that manner . . . "

[FossilHunter]

I reached out to creagdubh and he gave me permission to share his reply.

He said that he doesn’t know the exact origin for the tradition but that it was “Old Cluny,” the 21st chief of Macpherson that started it. Some follow it, some don’t, some are aware of it, some aren’t.

[Ashworth]

Very interesting!
Thank you all for participating and giving the start of an answer to both the MacPherson question and most generally the origin of tying a Balmoral's ribbons, which I am also curious about.

So, with this information about Old Cluny, I imagine that this habit, rather than an old tradition, is mostly anchored in MacPhersons following their chief's fashion practice then, much like the British following Edward VII's habit of unbuttoning his waistcoat's last button. (Well, this one turned way more global!)
Not many MacPhersons seem to be aware of it indeed.

[FossilHunter]

Very interesting!
Thank you all for participating and giving the start of an answer to both the MacPherson question and most generally the origin of tying a Balmoral's ribbons, which I am also curious about.

So, with this information about Old Cluny, I imagine that this habit, rather than an old tradition, is mostly anchored in MacPhersons following their chief's fashion practice then, much like the British following Edward VII's habit of unbuttoning his waistcoat's last button. (Well, this one turned way more global!)
Not many MacPhersons seem to be aware of it indeed.

Old Cluny was apparently well loved by his clansmen and well respected. This was suggested as part of his being a trendsetter. When he did things, folks noticed.

It may be more common knowledge among the inner circle of the macphersons. Creagdubh was friends with the late chief Cluny and is friends with the current chieftain of the Glentruim Macphersons. It wouldn’t surprise me to find that the tradition wasn’t well known among the average clansman.

[Jock Scot]

I stay(live) within a few miles of MacPherson territory and have done on and off for most of my life. To see anyone wearing Highland attire regularly in the whole of Scotland is unusual and wearing a balmoral bonnet is even more unusual. MacPherson country is no different on a day to day basis. However, at the time of the MacPherson Clan gathering then the Clan is very successful, possibly more than most, in bringing out the Highland attire.

Then, the balmoral is seen more regularly around and about and yes it is noticeable that the “ untied bonnet” is more common. I don’t think that the “normal local man in the street” gives it thought one way or the other. The local and visiting Clan members might, but I doubt anyone else even notices.

[Troglodyte]

Very interesting!
Thank you all for participating and giving the start of an answer to both the MacPherson question and most generally the origin of tying a Balmoral's ribbons, which I am also curious about.

So, with this information about Old Cluny, I imagine that this habit, rather than an old tradition, is mostly anchored in MacPhersons following their chief's fashion practice then, much like the British following Edward VII's habit of unbuttoning his waistcoat's last button. (Well, this one turned way more global!)
Not many MacPhersons seem to be aware of it indeed.

The waistcoat button thing is curious, as contemporary photographic evidence shows men with unfastened bottom waistcoat buttons from a time well before Prince Bertie could have had any fashion influence.

If any prince's style was to be emulated in this way, a far better candidate would have been the gluttonous and self-indulgent Prince Regent, whose regal figure is often depicted as gorged to a button-popping state.

Up until the Victorian era, men's waistcoats matched their frockcoats in length, and buttons below the waist remained unfastened for ease and style. The habit of leaving the lower buttons unfastened in more modern times owes more to equestrian needs than royal absent-mindedness - it is both uncomfortable and near impossible to keep low level buttons fastened while on horseback, and leaving then undone now is as much a status thing as any. You are of the knightly class if you leave them undone.

But that is really an English fashion, and contemporary accounts from prior to 1745 describe how the Highlanders' style was to wear a short jacket with a longer waistcoat protruding far lower. Sometimes it was two waistcoats together. MacIan's 1840s watercolour illustrations for Logan's 'Clans' give examples.