Membership Discussion of Possible Change to Rule #12

[Mael Coluim]

I've done some moderating editing to show that this thread was opened by Steve for discussion of Rule 12.

In another thread a discussion of a possible change to rule #12 was being discussed.

I have moved the posts dealing with that discussion here so it may continue with the full membership's participation.

[Thomas H]

Thee problem I have with this is,that ppl never say make this law to stop me from doing this "blank" I should stop.

They always want to stop the other bloke FOR HIS OWN GOOD; when that person is not hurting them.

WOW , And what does all this have to do with Kilts ?? This could get out of hand
Lets try and keep it about Kilts - not the other Thank you

[CDNSushi]

WOW , And what does all this have to do with Kilts ?? This could get out of hand
Lets try and keep it about Kilts - not the other Thank you

Indeed. Quite right, Thomas.

The nature of discussion for this forum are KILTS in the media -- not bars with the word "kilt" in them. This thread STARTED off-topic, and there really isn't much here in the way of comments that ISN'T either complaining about this particular church group wanting to shut down a bar, OR groups of people wishing to impose their sense of values or morals on others in general... While it may be discussion-worthy, it does seem to violate the rules.

Discussing how a community chooses to run its affairs, along with a church group lobbying to achieve their own purposes seems an awful lot like an unholy mix of religion AND local politics.

Rule #5
- Discussions on the topics of religion and politics most often result in conflict between members. Posts which quote historical facts or historical events are acceptable. Discussions of the rightness or wrongness of, espousing one over another, perceptions of, or personal belief in, a religion or political system are not acceptable. Quite simply, check your religion and politics at the door before entering.

Furthermore, this forum is for "Kilts in the media." As I mentioned before, this has nothing to do with kilts OR with kilts in the media. As such, another rule also comes into play:

Rule #12
– The topic of discussion on this forum is the kilt. Discussions veering off the topic or discussions or photos which stress topics other than the kilt will be subject to removal.

Be advised, that this thread has been reported to the moderators as possibly being in violation of XMTS forum rules. As such, it is being locked, pending moderator discussions on whether or not it shall be re-opened. If it is found to be in violation of our rules, it will remain locked (and may be removed). Otherwise, if the moderator team finds it acceptable, it will be re-opened.

Thank you for your understanding,

JD
For the XMTS Staff

[Mael Coluim]

The moderators have completed their deliberations on this thread. The reported post was found not to be in violation of Rule 5 and returned to the thread.

It was determined that this thread is in violation of Rule 12 in the forum, “Kilts in the Media.” The moderators decided to re-open the thread in the Miscellaneous Forum.

We ask the rabble to be cognizance of the Miscellaneous Forum description for threads placed there:

This is where our members can discuss those things in their lives not necessarily related to the Kilt. (Please keep in mind when posting here that we are a community of friends. The idea is to discuss those things which bring us together, not those that separate or divide us.)

Mael for the XMTS Staff

[Steve Ashton]

Hi folks,

I pose a question to all.

Just how far does a thread have to go off the original topic, or off the chosen topic of this forum, before someone must step in a call enough?

This thread has just been reported yet again.

Until the staff have had a chance to log on and discuss this latest report I am moving this thread to the cooling off corner.

[Mael Coluim]

The staff has concluded its deliberations and decided to reopen this thread.

[mookien]

... which only goes to show that you can't keep a good thread down ...

I would write something more substantive, but I can't remember what this thread is about.

[Steve Ashton]

I think this is one of those cases where a glimpse into the goings on behind the scenes is warranted.

The Moderators have been voting on 5 reports made against this thread almost since it began. I can tell you that this thread came very close to being locked on more than one occasion.

The reason it would be locked is because it was going into the realm of a political discussion. I know, it seemed that the thread was about religion but it wasn't. It was about the separation of church and state. That is a political issue.

It is also an issue that discussion here would not and could not resolve. The only way it was going to go was poorly.

Then the discussion went way off topic. The thread was then reported for a possible violation of Rule #12.

The Moderators decided to move this thread to the Misc, Section where discussion about non-kilt subjects is allowed within reason.

The Moderators then had to vote on a report that it had gone far off the original topic. The decision of that vote was that the current topic broke no rules and therefore the thread could continue.

Now, a small caution. If this thread returns to a discussion of politics I am pretty sure it will be reported again and I'm pretty sure it will be closed.
I also hope that if you want to discuss Hobbits and other topics that you start a new thread to do so. (Why you would want to discuss Hobbits on a kilt forum is a mystery to me when there are many forums out there set up just for that purpose.)

The ultimate wish of the Moderators is that you can have good discussions, and that this is a forum where you feel comfortable and can have fun with your friends. The only thing I ask is that you keep it a comfortable and fun place. Leave your politics at the door. There are many other forums where politics are the chosen topic. And then respect your friends by keeping threads on their original topic or start a new thread.

If your keeping this thread going just to keep the original topic alive I'm afraid that that is the action of a troll. That is not the way to show respect to the other members of this forum who come here to talk about kilts.

[piperdbh]

Hi folks,

I pose a question to all.

Just how far does a thread have to go off the original topic, or off the chosen topic of this forum, before someone must step in a call enough?

Here's my answer to Steve's question.
When a member poses a question or an item for discussion, and it gets answered and/or discussed all that's necessary, and then somebody introduces a new topic, which leads to its own discussion, then XMTS is working the way I think it should work. When the new, not-original-topic is deemed "Off Topic" and its thread gets locked, then XMTS is not working the way I think it should work. In my experience, the conversations that arise from and spin off from original topics are far more interesting, creative and enjoyable than the ones that stick only to a specific topic with no chance of introducing new material. In this thread, the issue of the churches being against the Tilted Kilt has been discussed thoroughly and all who wanted to say something have had their chance. Somebody introduced science fiction and Hobbits, which I thought was a beautiful way of defusing what could have become an inflammatory thread. In my opinion, this thread shows what XMTS is supposed to be: adult-thinking people who can post ideas, pictures, questions, criticisms, etc., and who can also "steer the ship" away from danger and back into an open, polite, free-form conversation. When I meet other X-Markers, discussion of the kilt is usually the conversation-starter, but from there we talk about anything anybody brings up. I think we should be able to do the same thing here, as long as we abide by the rules concerning forbidden topics.

[mookien]

Here's my answer to Steve's question.
When a member poses a question or an item for discussion, and it gets answered and/or discussed all that's necessary, and then somebody introduces a new topic, which leads to its own discussion, then XMTS is working the way I think it should work. ...

I think we should be able to do the same thing here, as long as we abide by the rules concerning forbidden topics.

I agree.

A complication implicit in that philosophy arises, however, when some of the posters wish to continue discussing the original topic, but others choose to pursue the new topic(s). It's a bit more difficult to follow multiple conversations in a linear thread. But, on the other hand, it does add an element of chaos.