Campbell or Black Watch

**IsaacW** · 19th February 14, 03:51 PM

I have heard the stories that the Black Watch tartan was derived from the Campbell tartan and was recently reading online that the Campbell tartan (ancient) is the same as Black Watch. Can anyone clarify this for me. BW is very easy to find and I have been wanting to find a kilt in a tartan more proper to me and my family background (Campbell).

**unixken** · 19th February 14, 04:55 PM

I think you will find your answer here: http://ccsna.org/jsep50a.htm

**IsaacW** · 19th February 14, 05:02 PM

I had not ever heard it said so certain but... From the site...

Ancient Campbell is the same as Black Watch tartan--hardly surprising, since that illustrious regiment is a Campbell regiment, raised by the Duke of Argyll in 1739. (Indeed, as Alastair Campbell of Airds, Chief Executive of Clan Campbell, has indicated in his authoritative book Campbell Tartan, the Black Watch tartan may well have been adopted as the clan's tartan because so many members of the clan were already wearing it, owing to their service in the regiment.)
The Black Watch tartan is today usually made in darker shades of green and blue, while Ancient Campbell is made in lighter, brighter shades. Some Campbells wear the lighter Ancient Campbell for day wear and the darker Black Watch for evening and formal wear--the important point being that they are the same tartan. Remember, it is the "sett", or thread count of a tartan that distinguishes it from other tartans, not the comparative lightness or darkness of their colors, which in early days could vary greatly due to the unpredictable nature of vegetable dyes. So, caveat emptor: before you buy anything purporting to be Ancient Campbell or Black Watch tartan, be sure it has the correct sett, with first one pair of black "railroad tracks" on the blue, and then two pair, then one pair, and so on.

**unixken** · 19th February 14, 05:15 PM

Those are exactly the paragraphs I thought might answer your questions. ;)

**Domehead** · 19th February 14, 05:25 PM

Hello IsaacW,

Tartan: The Highland Textile, James D. Scarlett, Shepheard-Walwyn Publishers, Ltd., 1990, pg. 25-30

The 1819 Key Pattern Book, Peter Eslea MacDonald, PA Eslea MacDonald, 2012, pg. 59-60

I had more, but Mr. Cormack beat me to it. Well done.

Domehead

**IsaacW** · 19th February 14, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by unixken

Those are exactly the paragraphs I thought might answer your questions. ;)

Yup... And although the CCSNA is definitely authoritative. I just wanted further verification, before I spend monies on a wooly waist-cover! Thanks!

**IsaacW** · 19th February 14, 05:44 PM

Thank you gents! I just would like to have a kilt that I do not need any crazy stories to explain... Something that fits traditionally and, being kiltfully conservative, can appease most folks.

Currently I have a Cameron of Erracht that I re-tailored from an exmilitary kilt I purchased as a student while in Scotland. It fit and price was right (I would have gone with a gov't sett at the time but none fit). My host family was of the attitude that tartans did not matter as they were a new invention... They convinced my historically indulged mind of this at the time. Now, I am a bit more conservative and leaning toward the fact that, although they are a "new" invention, the reality of people's attitudes toward tartan is a reality... And one I wish to uphold.

**figheadair** · 20th February 14, 12:18 AM

The BW/Campbell debate is one of the oldest in the history of tartan study. Notwithstanding the Chief's claim he's was being a little economical with the facts surrounding the founding of the Regiment and it's simply not true to say that it was a Campbell one.

It terms of the tartan, I am unaware of any definitive proof of its use as a Campbell one before c1800. That doesn't invalidate its use now, 200+ years is a pretty good history.

**IsaacW** · 20th February 14, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by figheadair

It terms of the tartan, I am unaware of any definitive proof of its use as a Campbell one before c1800. That doesn't invalidate its use now, 200+ years is a pretty good history.

I would be somewhat surprised if it was in use by the clan before 1800, but then I am skeptical about a lot of "tartan history" pre-1800. BTW, I have been loving the info you have on your website, Peter! Fun reads!

Anyway, my interests in wearing this is for the modern day. If it is considered "Clan Acceptable" today, I will go with it.

Heck, 200 years history is more that we see in a lot of areas around here without going to "prehistory." Not quite like the other side of the pond.

Isaac

**Nathan** · 20th February 14, 08:18 AM

I think the important point to remember in this debate is that while the Campbells have claimed the government Sett as their own tartan, other clans have also claimed it as their hunting tartan etc... The main difference between Black Watch and say Buchanan is that since it belongs to the government, anyone can wear Black Watch without being accused of misrepresenting themselves as Campbells. It is truly a generic tartan because people from most every clan and family in Scotland have served in it.

If you're a Campbell, it's your tartan, just don't call anyone else out for wearing it who is not a Campbell for even by the strictest adherence to the tradition of wearing a tartan to which one is associated, there is zero exclusivity where the government sett is concerned.

The government sett is one of the oldest tartans and pre-dates the concept of clan tartans by quite some time.