Saltire etiquette

[Tartan Hiker]

I have a question regarding "alternate" usages of the Saltire. Here's an example from a recent thread:



Here we see three Saltires, one with a red pennant affair tacked on, another with text and image applied directly, and a third incorporated into a clan badge.

To those who know much more than I about such things, is this an acceptable practice?

[Jock Scot]

It is nothing to get too wound up about, although I suspect the one with the red bit tacked on might have a symbol, in yellow or gold in it, that I personally would not approve of. Others may think otherwise.

[macwilkin]

It is nothing to get too wound up about, although I suspect the one with the red bit tacked on might have a symbol, in yellow or gold in it, that I personally would not approve of. Others may think otherwise.

Aye, Jock...it is the flag of a particular political party. I'll not go into details out of respect of forum rules, but just say it belongs to the "fighting dominie" of Glasgow.

T.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I think it is unfortunate (and showing more than just a bit of ignorance) when individuals or groups feel it appropriate to deface their national flag with commercial messages or political slogans. But, like Jock Scot has said, it's nothing to get too wound up about.

The sad thing is, at least in Scotland, a group like the Society of William Wallace could, in theory, apply to the Court of the Lord Lyon for a grant of arms and display those instead of defacing their national flag.

[Chas]

Traditionally, in the UK, an armiger would have his national flag displayed in the hoist on his personal banner.

Here are some examples of armigers and peers of Scotland:


Aquino M., Baron of Rachane



Morris of Balgonie and Eddergoll


The Marchmont Standard belonged to a member of the Border family of Home of Home, members of which held the office of Warden of the Marches between 1449 and 1603. It was made circa 1476 probably for Alexander, 1st Lord Home (d. 1491). It measures nine and a half feet long by three feet wide and is made of red silk (which has now faded to a cream color). There is a St Andrew's Saltire in the hoist, followed by a lion passant, the motto Keyp Reull (Keep Rule) and a popinjay (a charge from the Home arms).


Standard of the MacLaren, supported by the fetching Mermaid of Loch Voil. Illustration from 'The Highland Clans', Moncreiffe and Hicks, 1967

Regards

Chas

[Tartan Hiker]

Thanks everyone. I think I've got my answer.

[Zardoz]

Tartan Hiker, I think the basic answer to your question is that in most countries national flags are only symbols of the state, not considered a living representation of the county like the U.S. flag, which has a lot of regulations about it's proper use.
Something like that here in the U.S. would be considered a violation of the Flag Code, Section 8g: "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature." Section 8: "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America." Section 8j: "The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing."

Thought I'd thow that in before this thread goes South!

[skauwt]

Ive always thought of the flag being owned by the people of Scotland and what ever they want to add to it ..say with text or images is a show of pride of the saltire
even if its somewhat misguided and not thought out properly

i purchased a old navy signal flag which i believe is navy speak for "Mike|MIKE| My vessel is stopped; making no way"

but it was the only good quality cotton heavy weight flag with brass fixtures i could find that remotely looked like the saltire rather than buying one of those cheap looking poly flags (all i need now is a few hundred acres and a flag pole to hoist it up )

[Aldisimo]

You can get a kilt that lets you sit on the Saltire. You can get Saltire undergarments.

These pennants are no big deal.

[Urchurdan]

My missus took a pic of a Female USA Athelete at the Games in Inverness this year, I was surprised at her (my wife), as she is a USA Citizen, and is normally very strongly against misuse of her National Flag.
On asking her why she wasn't angry, she says her underwear was cloth with a representation of the Flag, but did not constitute a Flag.
I ran this past an old USA Marine chum of mine, and he agreed with her, it is in bad taste, but a Flag is a Flag and made as such.
I would be interested in other views on this though, BTW, she was also as you will notice, wearing the USA tartan. My take - she not only disrespected her Flag, she direspected the kilt and her tartan - but most importantly, I think she disrespected herself.
I see too much of this here in Scotland, when people who normally only don a kilt for a wedding or the fitba' make a mockery of the kilt when drunk. Anyway, thats my take, what's yours?

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