Gordon Highlanders Etiquette

[cavscout]

I'll be receiving a Gordon Modern from Rocky for my Birthday. I'm completely stoked about this kilt. My question for you guys is about a kilt pin.

A part of me thinks it would be appropriate to obtain a gordon highlanders kilt pin to honor the military heritage of that tartan. http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/ghs...p&pID=31&cID=9 But another part says that that may go too far as to imply I was some how affiliated with the regiment.

I know we've had the "Whatever you wear, wear it respectfully" discussion but because this is the actual uniform of that regiment I feel I need to be a bit more careful.

Also I noticed a sporran at North of Saint Andrews with a Gordon Highlanders emblem on the flap that poses the same dilema.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...198611065&rd=1

Would adding these Gordon Highlander accessories be too much?

[macwilkin]

I'll be receiving a Gordon Modern from Rocky for my Birthday. I'm completely stoked about this kilt. My question for you guys is about a kilt pin.

A part of me thinks it would be appropriate to obtain a gordon highlanders kilt pin to honor the military heritage of that tartan. But another part says that that may go too far as to imply I was some how affiliated with the regiment.

I know we've had the "Whatever you wear, wear it respectfully" discussion but because this is the actual uniform of that regiment I feel I need to be a bit more careful.

Also I noticed a sporran at North of Saint Andrews with a Gordon Highlanders emblem on the flap that poses the same dilema.

Would adding these Gordon Highlander accessories be too much?

The standard British Army issue kilt pin for other ranks (enlisted men) is a simple "safety-pin", which is also worn by civilians with Highland attire. Personally, I rather like the simplicity of this style of kilt pin, especially with day attire.

Remember that the Gordons would not have worn a civilian pattern "clan badge" or kilt pin; whilst the Gordons wore a cap badge with the stag's head and clan motto "By Dand", it was not contained in a buckle-and-strap, which is traditionally associated with a Chief's crest (i.e. showing loyalty to the chief of your clan). So any civilian version of a kilt pin, for example, a sword kilt pin with the Gordon Chief's badge, would not be inappropriate. While the Gordon tartan is a regimental tartan, it has also been adopted by The House of Gordon, and many Gordons wear it.

If the sporran has the badge with the Chief's crest encircled by the buckle & strap, then it is also the civilian pattern, although remember that technically, wearing the chief's crest badge shows loyalty to the Chief, in this case, the Marquis of Huntly.

The Gordons, btw were amalgamated in 1994 with the Queen's Own Highlanders (Seaforths & Camerons) to form the Highlanders Regiment. One recommended web site is:

http://www.cabarfeidh.com/index.htm

There is a Gordon Highlanders reenactment unit that wear Gordons "kit" in their portrayal of late 19th century members of the regiment, which is sanctioned by the Highlanders.

But, in fairness, the gift shop at the Gordons Museum in Aberdeen sells a lot of regimental "kit".

Cheers,

Todd

[highlander_Daz]

I think Todds said more than enough about the History of the Gordons- I have a great Grandfather who seved in the Gordons and I have a Gordon Highlanders kilt, its a popular tartan for pipe bands here and it is a great looking tartan, Id suggest you wear what you feel is apprpriate and comfortable, the Gordons dont exist any more but many a time Ive met an ex-gordon at rememberence occasions and all are thrilled to see the "old" tartan again.

I would suggest you look at

http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/

learn more about the regiment and these are the men you are honouring when you wear the Gordon tartan, I always seem to take more care with my appearence when I wear my "gordon" maybe because of the military connection.

Remember that Blair and his disgrace of a government are trying to dismantle the Scottish regiments

http://www.savethescottishregiments.co.uk/

wear your Gordon to support these incredibly historic and important regiments so the Black watch and the argylls dont go the same way as the Gordons

[macwilkin]

Reading Daz's message reminded me of something I should have written in my first response to cavscout's question: the "twinning" of regiments.

Many of the Scottish Regiments, past and present, maintain relationships with allied or "sister" regiments in the Commonwealth or the United States. Many times, the relationships are because of the two units serving together in a past conflict. Since we have a lot of Marines on the board, I'll use them as examples.

The USMC and the Royal Welch Fusiliers share a special relationship because of their service together during the Boxer Rebellion in 1900 in China. The Marines and the RWF were part of the Internaional Relief Expedition to rescue the besiged International Legations in Peking, and the RWF and Marines worked together in several actions, using the password, "...and St. David" to identify themselves. Since then, on St. David's Day (1 March) and the birthday of the USMC (10 November) the Commandant of the Marines and the Colonel of the RWF exchange the greeting "...and St. David!" Recently in Iraq the Black Watch joined the Marines in their birthday celebrations as well.

Many times, the allied regiments would share regimental traditions and customs, including tartans -- for instance, the Ghurkas & Sikhs have maintained a close relationship with Scottish soldiers, so you find Ghurkas wearing tartan (Douglas & Stewart Hunting), as well as Sikhs in the Indian Army (Rattray) with pipe bands, etc.

Where am I going with this? Well, given the fact that US & Commonwealth forces have fought side-by-side in a number of engagements, I see nothing wrong with veterans of US Forces wearing a tartan in tribute to their Scottish allies.

The last word should be about the Black Watch: After the Revolutionary War, the Black Watch refused to take battle honours for their colours from the Revolution. In the regimental history, the reason being was that it was thought that battle honours should not be displayed for a war where the regiment fought "kith & kin".

Cheers,

Todd

[cavscout]

I didn't realize the situation with the Regiments. I can't imagine if the US actually disbanded the Marine Corps, though it has happened, the nation needed a quick reaction force and reformed the Corps. Every now and then you hear rumblings about uniting all branches under one branch. I hope this never happens.

Thanks to you both for the education about the Gordon Highlanders. I will absolutely wear this tartan with respect and honor.

[highlander_Daz]

Ive been to several occasion (weddings etc.) where "black watch" Tartan has born worn - it is very popular with hire shops and seen as a "free" tartan i.e. anyone can wear it, i concerns me when guests get drunk and act inappropriatly flashing / mooning etc whist wearing tartan, especially blackwatch-if only they knew the history and heritage of the tartan they are wearing, which is why its a good idea to KNOW YOUR TARTAN.

regardless of the history in the forming of the black watch, servicemen and women are held in very high esteem in Scotland, as im sure in all parts of the world, and whilst we might have our occasional good natured (hopefully) differences of opinion I think we all agree that ALL our allied servicemen and women are amazing.

[macwilkin]

Every now and then you hear rumblings about uniting all branches under one branch. I hope this never happens.

The Canadians tried it back in the 1970's, and it was an utter failure, and some of the Canadian Scottish regiments were lost entirely or reduced to militia battalions.

Daz -- I agree with you 100% about the Black Watch tartan. It deserves respect, and it has earned the right to be respected.

Cavscout -- I have no doubt that you will wear the Gordon with the proper respect & honour. Remember the regimental motto, "By Dand" -- "Stand Fast!"
Winston Churchill once said that the Gordons "were surely the finest regiment in the world!"

"A Gordon for me, a Gordon for me, if you're nae a Gordon..."

T.

[Macman]

"The Black Watch are braw, the Seaforths an'a, but the cocky wee Gordon's the pride of em'a".
I agree, cajunscot. Unification was the worst thing foisted upon an unwilling military by politicians.
The militia regiment that I belonged to was "twinned" with the Royal Scots, which I think has since been amalgamated somewhere along the way. Both wore the Hunting Stewart, so that tartan always has an effect on me like the Black Watch and the Gordon on Daz.
BTW, I love the new avatar!

[macwilkin]

The Royal Scots are under threat of being amalgamated with the King's Own Scottish Borderers (KOSB) -- ironically, the RS is the oldest regiment in the British Army, and the KOSB was raised in 1689. So much history lost...

Glad you like the avatar -- Ashley Judd & tartan -- it just doesn't get any better than that! :mrgreen:

T.

[Sir Robert]

I am a Craig, on my Daddy's side, Clan Craig petered out in about 1630ish and became a sept of Clan Gordon.

I wear the Gordon tartan to honor my ties of blood to the Craigs & Gordons and I wear (civillian) Clan Craig badge to further detail my Sept therein. Although technically it is not right to mix.

As an American Soldier of Scottish desent (who has served along side the British Army) I could choose to wear the "Gordon Highlanders" (military) regailia to honor that unit of the British Army.

Do you catch the subtle differance?