A question regarding a clan badge

[Sheep In Wolf's Clothing]

It might be the size of the cap badge that may be throwing you off. I use to wear a large pewter badge I picked up along my travels, but I always thought it looked too big. (Even though it was sold as a cap badge) I bought a smaller silver hallmarked pin and replaced the large pewter one. I think it looks better.
Here are some photos:
Old badge:


New badge


Detail


(As a MacArthur, you have probably noticed that the new badge has what is know as “the battle cry” rather than the motto. I had never seen one like that, so I had to have it!!)
Wear your new bonnet in good health cousin!
Sara

[JSFMACLJR]

(As a MacArthur, you have probably noticed that the new badge has what is know as “the battle cry” rather than the motto. I had never seen one like that, so I had to have it!!)
Wear your new bonnet in good health cousin!
Sara

Does MacArthur of that Ilk know that you are wearing an incorrect version of his crest badge?

[Sheep In Wolf's Clothing]

Does MacArthur of that Ilk know that you are wearing an incorrect version of his crest badge?

I have not thought to drop him an e-mail about it yet!
Sara

[JSFMACLJR]

I have not thought to drop him an e-mail about it yet!
Sara

If the crest badges come from Scotland a quick note to the Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon might work, as the erroneous badges are illegal in the Kingdom.

[Sheep In Wolf's Clothing]

If the crest badges come from Scotland a quick note to the Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon might work, as the erroneous badges are illegal in the Kingdom.

I believe, upon further research that my badge does keep with the guidelines set out by the Court of the Lord Lyon. It states on the official website found here: http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/242.html

That:
“It is correct for these people to wear their Chiefs Crest encircled with a strap and buckle bearing their Chief’s Motto or Slogan. The strap and buckle is the sign of the clansman, and he demonstrates his membership of his Chiefs Clan by wearing his Chief’s Crest within it.”

Now if the definition of “Slogan” is the same as the one found in the Merriam -Webster dictionary here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slogan

I believe this would mean that the badge is not illegal. I have sent an e-mail to a few Clan members who would know better than I, and I am drafting one to Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon.
Thank you for the heads up (pun intended)
Sara

[macwilkin]

Sara: PM Xmarks member Sketraw -- John is the web master of the Heraldry Society of Scotland and very knowledgeable about heraldry. He also has some contacts who may be able to help you.

Regards,

Todd

[M. A. C. Newsome]

If the crest badges come from Scotland a quick note to the Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon might work, as the erroneous badges are illegal in the Kingdom.

I have noticed that the clansman's badge of my own clan, MacQuarrie, is most frequently seen with the slughorn/battle cry on it ("An T'Arm Breac Dearg"). Less frequently seen is the actual motto of "Turris Fortis Mihi Deus."

What is odd to me is that we carry two lines of crest badges on our museum gift shop. One made in Scotland, one made in the USA. The Scottish-made badges have the slughorn. The American-made ones have the motto!

[Sketraw]

Indeed it does say on the Lyon Court website 'Motto or Slogan' however as Sandford has pointed out, it is the chiefs crest and as he is the owner of the crest, it is he who decides if the 'war cry' in this case, or the motto should be used within the Strap & Buckle to reflect a clansman allegiance to him.

Since we are on Clansman/Clanswoman badges, a Clansman/Clanswoman is permitted to wear his Chiefs crest in a 'Strap & Buckle' (under Scots Law). Any other depiction of the badge in paper form, electronically etc. should be in Black and White Not Colour to reflect that it is the Badge of a Clansman/Clanswoman. The Chief can if he wishes use his Crest on its own in Colour.

I know many Clan Societies depict the 'Clan Crest Badge' as it is known in Colour, this is incorrect. But it will continue know doubt.

As Rathdown pointed out it is the Clan and Heraldic Bucket Shops in the main, for there own gain, that have twisted and promoted their own ideas to shake you loose of your cash.

Question to Jake; What is a Donnachidh Badge?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Rowing in on this... "slughorns" were used to replace mottoes on badges produced by a firm trying to sidestep copyright issues... The motto on the buckle and strap, and the crest, form a single heraldic design which is copyrightable as a product. The unscrupulous have been known to lift a design from books (Way and Squire are currently the most sinned against) and put them into production. ALL of the line art in W&S is copyright by Romilly Squire of Rubislaw and he has licensed it exclusively to Gaelic Themes. A very weak argument was put forward that by using the slughorn it was a different design... as the other two major elements (buckle and strap, and the crest itself) were unchanged from the copied work, the company was ordered to "cease and desist".

Whether this badge is one of the knock-offs, or a knock-off of a knock-off, I can't say. But as Sandy has pointed out it is definitely NOT the badge of a clansman.

[Sheep In Wolf's Clothing]

Rowing in on this... "slughorns" were used to replace mottoes on badges produced by a firm trying to sidestep copyright issues... The motto on the buckle and strap, and the crest, form a single heraldic design which is copyrightable as a product. The unscrupulous have been known to lift a design from books (Way and Squire are currently the most sinned against) and put them into production. ALL of the line art in W&S is copyright by Romilly Squire of Rubislaw and he has licensed it exclusively to Gaelic Themes. A very weak argument was put forward that by using the slughorn it was a different design... as the other two major elements (buckle and strap, and the crest itself) were unchanged from the copied work, the company was ordered to "cease and desist".

Wheter this badge is one of the knock-offs, or a knock-off of a knock-off, I can't say. But as Sandy has pointed out it is definitely NOT the badge of a clansman.

Fair enough. I have yet to have anyone respond to my e-mails. If I send you a picture of the numourous hallmarks on the back of the item can you let me know if it is one from this company. The auction I bought it from dated it from 1950.
Thanks,
Sara