A question regarding a clan badge

**JSFMACLJR** · 8th February 09, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sheep In Wolf's Clothing

I have not thought to drop him an e-mail about it yet!
Sara

If the crest badges come from Scotland a quick note to the Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon might work, as the erroneous badges are illegal in the Kingdom.

**Sheep In Wolf's Clothing** · 8th February 09, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

If the crest badges come from Scotland a quick note to the Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon might work, as the erroneous badges are illegal in the Kingdom.

I believe, upon further research that my badge does keep with the guidelines set out by the Court of the Lord Lyon. It states on the official website found here: http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/242.html

That:
“It is correct for these people to wear their Chiefs Crest encircled with a strap and buckle bearing their Chief’s Motto or Slogan. The strap and buckle is the sign of the clansman, and he demonstrates his membership of his Chiefs Clan by wearing his Chief’s Crest within it.”

Now if the definition of “Slogan” is the same as the one found in the Merriam -Webster dictionary here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slogan

I believe this would mean that the badge is not illegal. I have sent an e-mail to a few Clan members who would know better than I, and I am drafting one to Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon.
Thank you for the heads up (pun intended)
Sara

**macwilkin** · 8th February 09, 09:34 AM

Sara: PM Xmarks member Sketraw -- John is the web master of the Heraldry Society of Scotland and very knowledgeable about heraldry. He also has some contacts who may be able to help you.

Regards,

Todd

**JSFMACLJR** · 8th February 09, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Sara: PM Xmarks member Sketraw -- John is the web master of the Heraldry Society of Scotland and very knowledgeable about heraldry. He also has some contacts who may be able to help you.

Regards,

Todd

And I too am a member of the HSS...have been for years!

What tips me off that the crest babge in question is not legit, is the explanation on the Clan MacArthur website, which states:
"Roughly pronounced, "Ishd O Ishd," translates into "Listen O Listen." Quite often you will erroneously find our war cry affixed to a badge instead of our "fide et opera" motto. The war cry was reserved for the Chief as a rally to battle." http://www.clanarthur.com/crest-motto.htm

Squire of Rubislaw and Way of Plean back this up in their treatise as well.

**1MUNK3** · 8th February 09, 11:25 AM

I find this rather interesting. I'm a Cameron so it does not pertain specifically to me, but would still like to know the outcome. Thank you for future updates.

**macwilkin** · 8th February 09, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

And I too am a member of the HSS...have been for years!

What tips me off that the crest babge in question is not legit, is the explanation on the Clan MacArthur website, which states:
"Roughly pronounced, "Ishd O Ishd," translates into "Listen O Listen." Quite often you will erroneously find our war cry affixed to a badge instead of our "fide et opera" motto. The war cry was reserved for the Chief as a rally to battle." http://www.clanarthur.com/crest-motto.htm

Squire of Rubislaw and Way of Plean back this up in their treatise as well.

Sandford -- my apologies; I should have mentioned that you were a member of the HSS as well.

T.

**Sheep In Wolf's Clothing** · 8th February 09, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Sara: PM Xmarks member Sketraw -- John is the web master of the Heraldry Society of Scotland and very knowledgeable about heraldry. He also has some contacts who may be able to help you.

Regards,

Todd

Will do thanks!
Sara

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 9th February 09, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

If the crest badges come from Scotland a quick note to the Procurator Fiscal of the Court of the Lord Lyon might work, as the erroneous badges are illegal in the Kingdom.

I have noticed that the clansman's badge of my own clan, MacQuarrie, is most frequently seen with the slughorn/battle cry on it ("An T'Arm Breac Dearg"). Less frequently seen is the actual motto of "Turris Fortis Mihi Deus."

What is odd to me is that we carry two lines of crest badges on our museum gift shop. One made in Scotland, one made in the USA. The Scottish-made badges have the slughorn. The American-made ones have the motto!

**Sketraw** · 9th February 09, 08:58 PM

Indeed it does say on the Lyon Court website 'Motto or Slogan' however as Sandford has pointed out, it is the chiefs crest and as he is the owner of the crest, it is he who decides if the 'war cry' in this case, or the motto should be used within the Strap & Buckle to reflect a clansman allegiance to him.

Since we are on Clansman/Clanswoman badges, a Clansman/Clanswoman is permitted to wear his Chiefs crest in a 'Strap & Buckle' (under Scots Law). Any other depiction of the badge in paper form, electronically etc. should be in Black and White Not Colour to reflect that it is the Badge of a Clansman/Clanswoman. The Chief can if he wishes use his Crest on its own in Colour.

I know many Clan Societies depict the 'Clan Crest Badge' as it is known in Colour, this is incorrect. But it will continue know doubt.

As Rathdown pointed out it is the Clan and Heraldic Bucket Shops in the main, for there own gain, that have twisted and promoted their own ideas to shake you loose of your cash.

Question to Jake; What is a Donnachidh Badge?