Brogues/Ghillies

**Blackwolf** · 17th January 10, 10:06 PM

From the Kilts in the Media-Why Jack Bauer is cool thread Jock Scot had this quote about the pic posted there:

"I have to admit that I have no idea who the fellow is.To his credit he is smartly turned out with well polished brogues and not those awful ghillie things. Mael, you make an interesting comment about the colour of his hose(I assume you are talking about the green ones?). I would guess that that colour would be "the best seller" here in Scotland."

This is the first reference I noticed about there being a difference between "brogues" and "ghillies". Are they the same shoe only one without the longer laces? Wanting to put a PC outfit together I've only heard of ghillie brogues.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 18th January 10, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

This is the first reference I noticed about there being a difference between "brogues" and "ghillies". Are they the same shoe only one without the longer laces? Wanting to put a PC outfit together I've only heard of ghillie brogues.

Basically the two shoe types are very similar, with one significant difference. The "ghillie" brogue is open; that is to say that it lacks a tongue and much of the leather is cut away from around the eyelets through which the laces pass. Although both shoes are acceptable for wear with the kilt, opinions on them are divided. Some, like Jock Scot, would rather have a tree fall on them than wear "ghillies"; others wouldn't be caught dead in anything else when kilted. I personally steer a middle course-- when attending games I wear ghillies; at any other time I am kilted I wear black oxfords, of the non-wingtip (ie: not a brogue) variety.

My advise would be to consider the "ghillie brogue" to be an acceptable daytime/outdoor shoe, and when wearing your Prince Charlie (or better yet a dress Argyll jacket) to stick with a pair of well-polished oxfords.

**Blackwolf** · 18th January 10, 11:15 PM

Got it. Thanks for the explanation and the advice.

**thescot** · 18th January 10, 11:43 PM

MoR gives some excellent advice. The one thing I would add is that since ghillies are a one-purpose shoe and regular oxfords, cap toe shoes, wing tips, or just about any other good black tie shoe will serve non-kilted purposes as well, don't pay the extra money unless you really like them.

I alternate between a black cap toe shoe with a kiltie attached for moderately dressy wear, a cap toe blucher oxford in cordovan for day wear, and a plain toe, spit-shined black oxford for black tie. All of them can be worn with any type clothing.

**piperdbh** · 19th January 10, 07:07 AM

For what it's worth, "broguing" refers to the decorative holes punched into or through the leather. "Brogues" can mean any type of shoe, but usually refers to those made with the aforementioned punching. Technically, a wingtip could be called a brogue. "Ghillies" or "ghillie brogues" are the tongue-less type of shoe with the extra-long laces, which happen to have all the holes punched in. The story goes that years ago someone had the idea, after trekking through the soggy places in Scotland, of punching holes in their shoes to let the water out, and over time the holes came to be purely decorative.

**slohairt** · 19th January 10, 11:58 AM

Keep in mind too that, like other shoes, ghillie brogues come with different soles: 'Marching' type rubber soles (good for day wear), leather soles, and soles with metal cleats.

**Jack Daw** · 19th January 10, 12:49 PM

I find ghillie brogues sort of annoying to wear for anything other than piping and black-tie events. If I tie the laces too tight then they are uncomfortable, and if too loose, the laces slide down my shin.

**Blackwolf** · 19th January 10, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by thescot

MoR gives some excellent advice. The one thing I would add is that since ghillies are a one-purpose shoe and regular oxfords, cap toe shoes, wing tips, or just about any other good black tie shoe will serve non-kilted purposes as well, don't pay the extra money unless you really like them.

I alternate between a black cap toe shoe with a kiltie attached for moderately dressy wear, a cap toe blucher oxford in cordovan for day wear, and a plain toe, spit-shined black oxford for black tie. All of them can be worn with any type clothing.

That sounds like a good idea. Having one shoe for other suits and looks is always a better option in my opinion. And then noting what Jack Daw mentions below about lacing them I may wait a bit before investing in those.

Originally Posted by Jack Daw

I find ghillie brogues sort of annoying to wear for anything other than piping and black-tie events. If I tie the laces too tight then they are uncomfortable, and if too loose, the laces slide down my shin.

That's a good point I'd not considered Jack Daw. Thanks for your experienced advice.

**PEEDYC** · 20th January 10, 03:54 AM

My ghillie brogues are kept for wearing with my PC. I wear normal plain black oxfords with day wear and boots for casual.

Practically all the ghillies I have seen tend to be black (formal wear) whereas normal brogues can be obtained in a variety of colours to match the outfit.

**OC Richard** · 23rd January 10, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by PEEDYC

My ghillie brogues are kept for wearing with my PC. I wear normal plain black oxfords with day wear...

Interesting, because at least from the 1930's up till recently it was usual to wear buckled brogues (Mary Janes) for Evening Dress and ghillie-ties for Day Dress.

Not so back in the mid-19th century when ghillie-ties, buckled brogues, and oxfords were all three worn with any sort of dress.

Until I got exposed to a load of old images of Highland Dress I thought it "wrong" to wear ghillie-ties with Evening Dress.