Irish and Gaelic Irish? Plus other quesitons!

[Burly Brute]

I decided to boil all my questions into one thread as to make it easier.

Q1: There is a school out here that offers, what's the difference?:

Elementary Irish
Elementary Irish-Gaelic

Q2: How many Goidlic(sp) languages are there? How many have evolved, what's the skinny?

Q3: In regards to the whole celtic-gaelic saga, how do the languages play a part? I mean, in regards to gaels being celt, but not all celts being gaels, how does the language influence/differ in this whole uber-super structure?

Q4: How similiar is Irish Gaelic and Scot Gaelic? Which one would provide a better foundation, if one were to pursue learning the other as well?

Q5: Dialects galore! Anyone able to boil down the Gaelic dialects across the board? Ireland, Scotland, Manx!?



Whoever undergoes this task, God speed! And thank you!


-BB

[Nick the DSM]

Every gaelic language came from Irish, the same as Irish Gaelic. The other two surviving forms are Scots Gaelic and Manx.

Its sort of like the Romance languages, based on latin and you can learn the other languages with mastering one of them.

[tripleblessed]

Every gaelic language came from Irish, the same as Irish Gaelic. The other two surviving forms are Scots Gaelic and Manx.

Its sort of like the Romance languages, based on latin and you can learn the other languages with mastering one of them.

In the interest of precision in the languaging, I think it is the other way round. Every Irish language came from Gaelic. The Gaels came to what we now call Ireland to live. They were one of many Celtic tribes that spread through the Middle East and Europe pushed by population pressures. This particular tribe ended up on this particular island which later began to be called Ireland, and as the people spread into what we now call the Hebrides and Scotland, they were widely referred to as Irish. Observers from the continent referred to them as such, IFIRC, through the 17th into the 18th century, as did the lowland Scots, noted above. As always, I am working mostly out of my head here, not having the extensive libraries of other members. (Did he say he's out of his head? I may well be, but I think I'm correct.)

So, as Gaels, their language was Gaelic before they arrived on the Emerald Isle, only later did it evolve into Irish, which is referenced by the word "Erse" to describe what was spoken in the Highlands. Irish and Gaelic are frequently interchanged, but Gaelic was the predecessor term.

If I'm incorrect, it's faulty recall, not teacher failure, and I'm sure someone will be happy to inform me, and I will be happy to learn.

P.S. I started on this after post 10, and I'm 17. You guys type way faster.

[slohairt]

Well, yes and no. Scottish Gaelic and Manx are really direct descendants of Old Irish, not some 'proto-Gaelic language'.

As MoR pointed out, Irish is indeed referred to as 'Irish' when speaking English. In Irish, it is called Gaeilge (i.e. Gaelic) not Éireannach (i.e. Irish).

The same is true for the others. Scottish Gaelic-speakers call their language Gàidhlig (Gaelic) and Manx-speakers call their 'Gaelg' or 'Gailck'.

[marvelredneck]

I decided to boil all my questions into one thread as to make it easier.

Q1: There is a school out here that offers, what's the difference?:

Elementary Irish
Elementary Irish-Gaelic

Q2: How many Goidlic(sp) languages are there? How many have evolved, what's the skinny?

Q3: In regards to the whole celtic-gaelic saga, how do the languages play a part? I mean, in regards to gaels being celt, but not all celts being gaels, how does the language influence/differ in this whole uber-super structure?

Q4: How similiar is Irish Gaelic and Scot Gaelic? Which one would provide a better foundation, if one were to pursue learning the other as well?

Q5: Dialects galore! Anyone able to boil down the Gaelic dialects across the board? Ireland, Scotland, Manx!?



Whoever undergoes this task, God speed! And thank you!


-BB

A1: I suppose they are they same.
A2: There are three Gaelic languages, Irish, Manx(Isle of Man), and Scottish.
A3: I don't understand what you mean?
A4: Irish is very similar to Scottish, in fact, I know some speakers who say they are often times mutually intelligible. And I would suggest learning Irish first, as there is MUCH more material in it, and once you have learned it, it will be much easier to learn Scots.
A5: ?

[Oldhiker]

there are more than three Gaelic languages.

Goidelic Branch - three main ones Scot Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Manx

Brythonic Branch - three main ones Welsh, Cornish and Breton.

many other sub species of each branch

There are 7 Celtic nations, one of which does not speak gaelic - Galicia which speaks a Spanish based language but has Celtic gentics.

[marvelredneck]

there are more than three Gaelic languages.

Goidelic Branch - three main ones Scot Gaelic, Irish Gaelic and Manx

Brythonic Branch - three main ones Welsh, Cornish and Breton.

many other sub species of each branch

There are 7 Celtic nations, one of which does not speak gaelic - Galicia which speaks a Spanish based language but has Celtic gentics.

Maybe you misread, he said GAELIC languages, not Celtic in general. There ARE only three GAELIC languages, the Brythonic languages are a seperate branch of Celtic languages and not Gaelic at all. But both Goidelic and Brythonic are Celtic.

[Burly Brute]

Maybe you misread, he said GAELIC languages, not Celtic in general. There ARE only three GAELIC languages, the Brythonic languages are a seperate branch of Celtic languages and not Gaelic at all. But both Goidelic and Brythonic are Celtic.

This is where it get's confusing. I know the somewhat distinctions, but my history on Gaels and Celts is so...lacking? Ugh! Not that this hurts me in the languages per se, but it's something I want to investigate more thoroughly.


thanks for everyone's responses!!!

-Zach

[jheby]

I can't really answer your all your questions. But I can tell you there is a great course on CD from the Modern Scholar series titled: "Icons of the Iron Age: the Celts in History and Archeology." You can likely find it at your local library or check www.modernscholar.com. This series of lectures gives great information about the origins, locations, history, archeology, languages, etc. of the Celts.

[McElmurry]

As a follow-up. If I were to learn Irish would I be able to read (with some difficulty) historic Irish or highland/hebridian literature? I assume the older the literature the more difficult it would be to read. How far back could one reasonably expect to read with some understanding?