Sett size??

[Spartan Tartan]

How does one determine the sett size for a tartan and can it be adjusted and still maintain the proper proportions?

When I look at a couple tartans in particular, the pictures appear to show the 16oz version having a larger sett than the 13oz version. I imagine that is due in part to the thickness of the wool threads...

My concern is the tartan I am really hoping to have a kilt made with appears to have really small sett from the Scottish Register of Tartans (http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tar....aspx?ref=5384). I am afraid it would look too small and busy on a kilt. The problem is, it is not listed as a stock tartan anywhere so I can not get an image to compare (like the 13 v. 16 oz comparison I refer to above on other tartans). The only images I have seen of this tartan are on scarfs--and therefore are naturally smaller setts, but it's hard for me to imagine a kilt in that small a sett.

So, what determines the tartan? The thread-count or the sett size or both? Can I request that the tartan be woven with double the count--thereby keeping the same ratio but also enlarging the sett? Would this even work or alter the appearance too much to make it recognizable?

Ultimately, I sense that I will be paying for a custom run on a tartan. Then, of course, having a premium well made kilt to my measures. I really do not want to spend $600-$700 (or more) on a kilt just to have it arrive and be disappointed due to the size of the sett.

[Paul Henry]

The threadcount is what determines the design of the tartan, it doesn't really matter what the size of the sett is as long as the ratios of the threadcount remain the same.

So for example a thread count of 2:4:2:6 would be the same tartan as 10:20:10:30 or indeed 60:120:60:180.
The proviso might be where a designer has restricted it to a very particular size , but I suspect this is unusual

A few years ago I had a client order the , St Kilda tartan but the sett was very small, so I got Dalgliesh to weave it for with the narrowest line to be 1 cm wide. It proved a very successful kilt.

So yes changing the sett size is possible although possibility expensive!

[MacMillans son]

Spartan Tartan,

With the tartan you linked to, it appears that there are a number of lines which are are only one or two threads wide, so it would likely lend itself well to increasing the size without making the sett appear too bulky. In other words, it has the room to grow.

I imagine you could copy it on one of the free tartan design programs available at Scotweb or others and see what you come up with.

Another thought is that if you are committed to the tartan you will accept it for what it is and wear it with pride. Not that you shouldn't scale it up, just that once you have it on you will likely forget about the thread count. There are a number of clans who only have one or two tartans for instance, I am sure folks of those clans don't spend a lot of time worrying about their thread count! It's their clan tartan and they wear it with pride, and that's that!

Best of luck!

[Spc. Scott]

I'm not positive but I think on Scotweb's designer it lets you know the sett size as you build. Maybe I'm just dreaming that up. Something to look for I guess.

[Paul Henry]

I'm not positive but I think on Scotweb's designer it lets you know the sett size as you build. Maybe I'm just dreaming that up. Something to look for I guess.

Yes, it does.
The usual sett size is between 6"-8", it doesn't mean you can't work to a different size. but that rough size seems to work will with much kilt work.

MacMillan's son
With the tartan you linked to, it appears that there are a number of lines which are are only one or two threads wide, so it would likely lend itself well to increasing the size without making the sett appear too bulky. In other words, it has the room to grow.

Thread counts are almost always in even numbers not in singles, as two warp threads are needed to make a decent visible line in the tartan

[MacMillans son]

Thanks for that Paulhenry. Not knowing the actual thread count, or that basic rule or tartan design, I should have been more general in my comment "Some of the lines look pretty narrow so..."

Thanks for the info.

[Spartan Tartan]

paulhenry,
I appreciate your feedback! Thanks. And that does help. Of course, at some point, too much custimization means too expensive


MacMillan's son,

Good point.

[tpa]

It is difficult to tell the size from the image, but although the sett is completely different there is some pattern similarity with the Anderson tartan I wear. I would post a picture for you but don't know how. My pictures are on my computer disc not a web site, so you will just have to look at the avatar. Heavier weights do have slightly larger setts but I doubt there will be a huge difference between a 13 and 16 oz.

[mookien]

It is my (admittedly naive) understanding that if a tartan has a small sett size and the weaver is told the cloth is being woven for a kilt (as opposed to something like a dress or upholstery), the weaver will scale the sett up to a size suitable for a kilt. Is that incorrect?

[Paul Henry]

It is my (admittedly naive) understanding that if a tartan has a small sett size and the weaver is told the cloth is being woven for a kilt (as opposed to something like a dress or upholstery), the weaver will scale the sett up to a size suitable for a kilt. Is that incorrect?

Weavers will do as they are told, but they don't "second guess".They won't automatically change the sett size unless they are told to do so.It makes little difference to them what sett size they weave, but they don't want to have to make the decision themselves.Whenever I have requested a special sizing I have always done so in writing and got their agreement likewise.There could well be an instance of the kilt wearer actually wanting a very small sett.Take for example the Shepherds (Northumberland)plaid , which is really nothing more than equal black and white, the weaver would be unwillinging to change the traditional size unless specially asked and likewise the Rob Roy (MacGregor red and Black squares) sett which is normally woven with a larger square than the Shepherds, but essentialky it's the same thread count