How to find sett size on mill websites?

**Tartan Tess** · 24th October 10, 02:08 PM

Holly cow! My eyeballs are tired.
I have a person that wants me to make her a band kilt in Modern Mackenzie....OK sounds good so far. I thought piece of cake, everybody has that one. The pipe major told me the origional band kilt tartan was from Lochcarron 12" sett 16 oz. but they are out of it and 14 weeks to weave it.
She is all excited and got the OK from him to shop around as long as it will be as good a match as possible. I have been on the computer for HOURS today, everybody does have it but for example....Marton Mills has 11 different ones. And why don't they have a place where you can see the sett size with the other tartan info. Am I missing something here?
I keep emailing the mill with questions on that and the price but I could weed out the wrong ones so much better if I just knew the sett size.
also....the idea of swatches is costly. I don;t mind the usual $7-$10 but shipping them to me for $10-$32 is crazy.
Sorry about the rant, i am sure I am not the first one to go thru this.
Thanks for any ideas and advice

**Paul Henry** · 24th October 10, 02:13 PM

You are right, it is difficult to find out the sett sizes, I've found the mills generally are quite happy to measure if they don't have the actual size on file. It would be great to have an easily accessuble file somewhere on line, but I suspect it is unlikely to happen anytime soon!

**xman** · 24th October 10, 07:34 PM

I've only been charged by B&S on behalf of Lochcarron $5 per piece for swatches and I have here two and a half dozen different ones now from all the big mills.

I have only asked for sett sizes once from Dalgleish and they did not reply. I have since asked for samples and expect the same as last time, no reply, but the swatches will show up in about a week or so.

I also wonder whether mills will provide warp size or weft. They're close, but I still wonder.

**The Wizard of BC** · 24th October 10, 07:46 PM

Tess,

If you can wait till I get to the kilt shop tomorrow I have an email somewhere from Marton Mills with the number of yarns per cm that they use for all the weights of fabric that they weave.

**Tartan Tess** · 25th October 10, 02:27 AM

Steve
I will check back daily (I am always checking in on Xmarks to see whats new and exciting) so when you get a chance I would be interested in that.
This leads me to another question...most of them did have a number next to the picture
the weight say, 16 oz. then 496 glm/269 gsm was for MM Juro.
What is glm/gsm? and does it unlock the secret to the sett size maybe???
Thanks to all of you for your help

**Paul Henry** · 25th October 10, 02:34 AM

glm = grammes per linear metre
gsm = grammes per square metre

roughly speaking what we think of 16 oz cloth is about 500 grams per linear metre

unless you actually know the threadcounts of each tartan, the epi (ends per inch = number of threads) isn't going to be the easiest way of working out the sett size, as it will still need some calculation.
It would be so much easier if it was just documented, even if it wasn't absolutely exact, an idea of whether it was 6" or 6.5" would be a great help

**Tartan Tess** · 25th October 10, 02:41 AM

Hummm, maybe we are in need of a sett size forum some day.
It would be nice to look up the tartan from which mill and have the numbers.

**The Wizard of BC** · 25th October 10, 04:07 PM

Hi Tess,

I have some numbers for you.

According to the design lady, Lauren, at Marton Mills the number of yarns or 'ends' per centimeter are.

Jura 14.57 ends per cm
Bute 17.5 ends per cm
Balmoral is 26 ends per cm.

To determine the Sett Size you first must know the thread count. Or how many individual yarns it would take to create one Full repeat of the Sett.

For example the Victoria, City of Gardens Tartan which I designed contains 326 yarns in a full Sett. This results in a Sett Size of 7.5" when woven in 16oz. Jura from Marton Mills.

There is a small 'fudge factor'. Weavers can adjust the thread count to increase or decrease the size of the Sett if needed. I asked for a Sett Size of 7.5" so I would not only have ample depth to knife pleats but would have a perfect 2.5" box-pleat.

Also the numbers you ask about, glm and gsm? These refer to the weight of the fabric. They stand for grams per linear meter and grams per square meter.

Jura weight fabric is listed as 58'-59" wide one fabric yard is a piece 59" x 36" or in metric, 1.49.9cm x 91.5cm.

59" x 36" = 2124 square in. or 13703 square cm.

Jura listed also listed at 500gsm which translates to 16oz/yard.

I hope this helps.