Campbell or Black Watch

[IsaacW]

I have heard the stories that the Black Watch tartan was derived from the Campbell tartan and was recently reading online that the Campbell tartan (ancient) is the same as Black Watch. Can anyone clarify this for me. BW is very easy to find and I have been wanting to find a kilt in a tartan more proper to me and my family background (Campbell).

[unixken]

I think you will find your answer here: http://ccsna.org/jsep50a.htm

[IsaacW]

I had not ever heard it said so certain but... From the site...

Ancient Campbell is the same as Black Watch tartan--hardly surprising, since that illustrious regiment is a Campbell regiment, raised by the Duke of Argyll in 1739. (Indeed, as Alastair Campbell of Airds, Chief Executive of Clan Campbell, has indicated in his authoritative book Campbell Tartan, the Black Watch tartan may well have been adopted as the clan's tartan because so many members of the clan were already wearing it, owing to their service in the regiment.)
The Black Watch tartan is today usually made in darker shades of green and blue, while Ancient Campbell is made in lighter, brighter shades. Some Campbells wear the lighter Ancient Campbell for day wear and the darker Black Watch for evening and formal wear--the important point being that they are the same tartan. Remember, it is the "sett", or thread count of a tartan that distinguishes it from other tartans, not the comparative lightness or darkness of their colors, which in early days could vary greatly due to the unpredictable nature of vegetable dyes. So, caveat emptor: before you buy anything purporting to be Ancient Campbell or Black Watch tartan, be sure it has the correct sett, with first one pair of black "railroad tracks" on the blue, and then two pair, then one pair, and so on.

[unixken]

Those are exactly the paragraphs I thought might answer your questions. ;)

[IsaacW]

Those are exactly the paragraphs I thought might answer your questions. ;)

Yup... And although the CCSNA is definitely authoritative. I just wanted further verification, before I spend monies on a wooly waist-cover! Thanks!

[IsaacW]

Thank you gents! I just would like to have a kilt that I do not need any crazy stories to explain... Something that fits traditionally and, being kiltfully conservative, can appease most folks.

Currently I have a Cameron of Erracht that I re-tailored from an exmilitary kilt I purchased as a student while in Scotland. It fit and price was right (I would have gone with a gov't sett at the time but none fit). My host family was of the attitude that tartans did not matter as they were a new invention... They convinced my historically indulged mind of this at the time. Now, I am a bit more conservative and leaning toward the fact that, although they are a "new" invention, the reality of people's attitudes toward tartan is a reality... And one I wish to uphold.

[Stoneyburnpiper]

This I find really interesting. Always have been a fan of the BW tartan but it seems a little close to my Graham tartan in color and set (I know they are different, but to the average eye). So that put me on a search, I've seen BW dress but when searching the main mills it doesn't seem they carry it. Other articles I've seen said the BW dress is the same as the Campbell dress but when I look the sets looked a bit different with the white stripes.

Now this is straight from the head of the Campbell House stating there is no (dress Campbell). It clarifies and yet still confuses. So the Campbell dress is really just a BW dress and not a Campbell. So when and if I spring to get another kilt made in BW dress I really should be ordering the Campbell dress, ken. That is a bit confusing no? Haha

[frank_a]

If yer a Campbell, where's the confusion? Go here: http://ccsna.org/jsep50a.htm#A0

I used to buy Campbell "dress" ties that were not approved by the Clan head. Once I started looking at buying a kilt, I was well aware the Duke of Argyll stated Ancient Campbell, unless you were a member of the Houses of Breadalbane, Cawdor or Loudoun. That's easy. Black watch is a military tartan, but I have one of those as well that I wear for military oriented occasions.

Best of luck to ya!

Frank

[Father Bill]

Okay; I'm not confused any more! Thanks!

[Father Bill]

Well, yes. I'm confused. Good thing that it's a bit clearer for Sinclairs!