Post deleted. War time Atrocities!

[Chas]

In the real world they are called laws and we have them in our villages and in our towns and in our cities and in our counties and in our states and in our countries and what ever else. We do not tolerate people breaking them. So much so that we have people paid to uphold and enforce those laws.

So why, oh Why, Oh WHY, do people here think that the laws that we call the rules should be so easily disregarded?

[Alan H]

Great post, Father Bill, and well said... All "communities" are not created alike, nor do all communities evolve in identical ways. That's a good observation. Also, thanks for the kind words, but I suspect that Alan H is viewed as both an interesting character who sometimes makes very interesting posts...and also a bit of a loose cannon! It's that "Kilted Lebowski" thing I've got going on!

CDNSushi... I never really thought of that. I mean, shoot a message to a couple of mods and say "I'm thinking about posting this: ---insert text of post, here--- and ask for feedback, first. It should have been obvious to me, but I just never thought about it. Thanks for that insight.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, while we could put something like that in somewhere, let me just make the comment that the moderators do, from time to time receive specific requests from members of such a nature. As it stands now, if there is ever a question or doubt regarding the future or possible acceptability of a thread or post, the moderators are happy to help and provide insight on how it would/will be viewed by the staff.

That said, remember that this does not prevent anyone from flagging something... The mods may well say, "Sure, go ahead - post it." And someone else may find offense with it. At that point we are compelled to deal with it anyway, even though we may have given our best guess that it ought to be fine.

Those are good sentences you've drafted there. My question would be, how do you get people to follow such an instruction? (People are notoriously bad at reading and following instructions)...

Thank you. Taking your last point first. Its simple, if we don't follow the instructions and rules then instant and irrevocable thread deletion follows, no warnings. We all will learn from it--------in the end.

As to flagged posts, again it is simple. On the first post a mod/Steve? will give a short written "topic waver" above the first post (and on every new page?) that should make objectors think(!?) before raising a flag. If the thread goes off course then normal Mod procedures will follow.

I hasten to add that these "way off normal topic threads" are not expected to be common currency.

[English Bloke]

In the real world they are called laws and we have them in our villages and in our towns and in our cities and in our counties and in our states and in our countries and what ever else. We do not tolerate people breaking them. So much so that we have people paid to uphold and enforce those laws.

So why, oh Why, Oh WHY, do people here think that the laws that we call the rules should be so easily disregarded?

Well... Can't argue with that Chas. I get the message.

[Father Bill]

*snip*
So why, oh Why, Oh WHY, do people here think that the laws that we call the rules should be so easily disregarded?

Disregarded? Probably not. Discussed and amended from time to time? Every nation and government does so. So long as nobody is hurt, why shouldn't we?

[Alan H]

I have to say that so far, I'm pretty happy with how this discussion is going, though I absolutely never conceived that such a thing would result from my original post. Everyone is being polite and thoughtful...good stuff here. I'm glad to see that Steve and the moderators are keeping an eye on it, and thinking about the nature of the site and how things work together. Two thumbs up. Everybody....let's keep it polite and thoughtful!

[cessna152towser]

Alan's original post was never censored from discussion.
The post was flagged, not because it was considered inappropriate, but was flagged as political because of one particular paragraph in the original post which took a direct swipe at the American government by suggesting there had been some sort of cover up. Before the moderators had time to vote on the flag, Alan himself requested that the thread be closed.
In my personal opinion, I don't see any taboo in spreading awareness of war crimes in the miscellaneous section. Where it would become taboo is where the discussion degenerates into politics.
I see this forum as a community where we can discuss almost anything family friendly, that is why we have a miscellaneous section where topics other than the kilt can be raised.
Since I joined this forum, I have made many friends, a good many of whom I have been fortunate to be able to meet in person. During my years here there have been changes in my personal life with early retirement from my profession, being forced to give up private flying due to a deep vein thrombosis, being widowed, and re-marrying, all of which events I have shared with you by announcing on xmarks and received many responses of condolence or congratulation as appropriate, not only from members whom I have met, but from many others whom I have yet to meet. This is a community of kilt wearers, and there are other things besides buying new kilts and hose which happen in our lives which we sometimes feel like sharing here. Such as Alan sharing his shock at finding out about certain crimes of war.
John, (English Bloke) I am sorry to learn of the death of your sister and I am also saddened that you did not feel able to share your feelings with us here on xmarks.

[Jock Scot]

In the real world they are called laws and we have them in our villages and in our towns and in our cities and in our counties and in our states and in our countries and what ever else. We do not tolerate people breaking them. So much so that we have people paid to uphold and enforce those laws.

So why, oh Why, Oh WHY, do people here think that the laws that we call the rules should be so easily disregarded?

Last time I heard, people in the UK are no longer hanged for stealing sheep. Last time I heard, people in the UK are no longer hanged for murder. Things change, by consent.

[Steve Ashton]

I would like to thank all those who have participated in this discussion.

I would also like to state very plainly to those who seem to be most vocal on this thread that “You have diverted the whole point, and you are ignoring the facts behind why the thread in question was removed”.

It had nothing to do with censorship.

It had everything to do with a member who was shocked when he, himself, first learned about a historical fact that has been public knowledge for many years.

The History Channel program cited in the post was from 1992. It was aired on the coattails of a new book and travelling exhibit about a known incident of war.
I’m sorry that Alan is just hearing about this now. I had known about Area 731 since I was a teenager.

Man’s inhumanity to man is a fact. And it is true that we have, and continue, to do horrible things to each other.

That does not excuse a member from making the disparaging political statements and attacking and denigrating a government for their actions that were the real reasons that caused the thread to be removed.

Within minutes of being posted, four members of this forum had posted replies to the thread stating that they did not feel the comments were appropriate.
The thread was flagged, not by some thin skinned whiner, but by a long standing, active member of this community who questioned if the political attack violated our published Rule #5.
Alan was immediately contacted, as the Moderators are required to do for any flag. While awaiting his response a poll was set up in the moderator forum in accordance with our policies.
By the time Alan logged on and responded, not all of the moderators had had a chance to vote but those who had were unanimous that the political attack was against the spirit of Rule #5.
When Alan did respond he stated that it was his wish that the thread should be removed.

Voting was stopped, the thread removed at the OP’s request, and the matter resolved. Well, to the satisfaction of those actually involved it was resolved.

Then this thread started.
There have been claims of censorship where none existed.
There have been claims of people who are too sensitive to face atrocities running to the staff complaining. This did not happen.
There have been calls for a re-write of the forum rules and a re-structuring of the forum itself.

All this, when most of you never saw the thread in question, did not know the facts, and jumped to the conclusion that because a thread was removed that there must be something wrong with how the Moderators run this forum.
Frankly you have been like sharks who smell blood in the water. You seem upset that you were denied the chance to share in the juicy parts. You have refused to listen to reasonable explanations when they were offered and ignored those who actually know what happened.

And you turn your disappointment towards the Forum Moderators, and the rules of this forum.
Well, I’m sorry. This is a moderated forum. We have 12 simple rules. There will never be a Free-For-All section of X Marks. A place where the rules are thrown out the window so a few may act in any way they want. Where personal attacks against other members, where denigrating or belittling each other is allowed. Nope, not going to happen.

We already have a Miscellaneous section where even a topic like this could be talked about and discussed as long as you remain civil and respectful.


I’m not going to close this thread because you all would just start screaming about censorship again.
But I am going to tell you to get your facts right before you start to attack the Staff for doing their job.

[Chas]

Last time I heard, people in the UK are no longer hanged for stealing sheep. Last time I heard, people in the UK are no longer hanged for murder. Things change, by consent.

But they still go to prison for it! Or are you advocating that should be changed as well?

Has there been an outbreak of sheep stealing and murdering on this forum that I have not heard of?