Why no pubs in America?

[JRB]

My favorite brew pub, "The People's Pint" is very family friendly and almost everyone knows everyone. The beer is the absolute best there is! Plus, every Sunday evening is Celtic jam session night where anyone who wants to can bring their instruments and join in. It's in Greenfield, MA (yep, the good ol' USA).

[beowulf67]

We have a nice Irish pub in the town where I work. It was started back in the 70's by an Irish immigrant and has an area with couches and chairs for socializing, and the small private nooks with tables.
In Alabama our goofy laws make it difficult for brew pubs. For instance they can only be in a historic building in a county where brewing was legal before prohibition. And if a brewery sales to larger distributors such as grocery stores etc then they can't open a brew pub and sale their own beer.

[dutchy kilted]

Tommy Condon's in Charleston, SC, is the best pub I have ever been to, but there are many other good ones if you look hard enough.

[KiltedBrewer]

Have any of you guys ever been to Wisconsin? Sure, they're called taverns here, but they're the American (or at least Wisconsin) response to a true British pub. Food is served, usually home-made or local recipes, and it's not uncommon to see kids at these places. However, they're never kitchy or themed--they're just the public living room.

I was going to post nearly this exact paragraph. I grew up in WI and I'd wager that most people who did will remember countless afternoons begging for change to play pinball or video games in the tavern where the whole family just had a meal or was watching the Packers. If that's not a pub, I don't know what is.

[SteveB]

The People's Pint is a very nice pub of the family sort, as is the Gardner Ale House. Both are true "locals".

Following the thread it seems that what is perceived as a pub is what differs.

The Pub as a strictly alcohol venue has met its demise in the most of the U.S. mostly for legal issues forced by the State and local licensing authorities. Also our society's attitude has changed towards the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Most municipalities require food be served to obtain an alcohol license these days, which was not required only forty years ago in the same towns/cities. There are a few "grandfathered" boozers left. The pub as a gents only establishment with a bar and no seating has almost disappeared from the U.S. There are two that I know of and have visited here in Boston. Both consist of a large room with no entertainment devices, just a small serving bar with staff pouring beer as fast as possible to keep the line moving and the till filled. There are no chairs and the decor is bland. The atmosphere is the staff and the people and the conversation that continues to last call.

For many of us the pub is a family friendly establishment that is a place to relax, converse, eat and drink, and enjoy whatever talent joins in. Granted this is a new concept that has been brought to the states by entrepreneurs from Ireland and a lesser extent England, but not so much as from Wales or Scotland. For most Americans this is what is the perception of a European pub. Not accurate, but sells well on this side of the puddle. Many of these have the long table concept where strangers become friends in conversation.

The pub as MoR and FM note are about gone here in the U.S. Also gone from the U.S. is the daily card at a racetrack and the racing conversation that took place in those pubs of old. Dog and Horse racing has also met a major decline in the U.S.

Today the drinking venues are the concert halls catering to the younger set where volume of the music pushes the volume of booze sold.

In March, I will be attending one of the Dropkick Murphys concerts at a large wide open venue, several bars, no seats and packed with many hundreds of people. Such is the House of Blues in Boston, which is an all ages venue. The beer will flow from the bars, and the staff will be bringing vast quantities on their shoulders to sell in the mosh pit. It will be a big drinking festival, and most of the concert goers will stumble out of the venue and onto the public transit to home or nearby crash pad. While the performers are on stage there will be no conversation, but there will be plenty and a lot of good fun in between.

I am curious if Paul. will have the same experience at the Barrowland in Glasgow in April when this band performs there. The venue requires 14+ I think it might be interesting to compare the experiences of the two sides of the puddle at a Celtic Punk concert of the same performers, in two separate social and cultural centres.

I believe that just like the perception of what a pub is, a concert will also have some different perceptions as well.

Slainte

[Detroitpete]

I had the priviledge of meeting and speaking with Studs Terkle one afternoon in Chicago. It was in a tavern. It was in what he said was his favorite tavern on the North Side. He said it was his favorite because that had no TV. If you wanted to know the score of the game, they'd turn the radio on for a bit.

He said that putting a TV and other entertainments in a tavern was the ruin of the 'public experience'. The distractions served to isolate patrons from each other and from a simple and rare gift: conversation.

I knew I was lucky to meet him. I knew I was even more lucky to speak with him. I think this man understood the need for a good 'pub'.

Ok--back to the topic--thanks for the side note.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I had the priviledge of meeting and speaking with Studs Terkle one afternoon in Chicago. It was in a tavern. It was in what he said was his favorite tavern on the North Side. He said it was his favorite because that had no TV. If you wanted to know the score of the game, they'd turn the radio on for a bit.

He said that putting a TV and other entertainments in a tavern was the ruin of the 'public experience'. The distractions served to isolate patrons from each other and from a simple and rare gift: conversation.

I knew I was lucky to meet him. I knew I was even more lucky to speak with him. I think this man understood the need for a good 'pub'.

Ok--back to the topic--thanks for the side note.

This is probably why companies like Starbucks, et al, have prospered, while tavern attendance in the USA (and pub attendance in Ireland and the UK) has fallen off.

[O'Callaghan]

There are a few good pubs in America. My favourite one is the Penny Lane Pub in Richmond, VA, and is run by an Englishman. Unfortunately, I live 100 miles North of there.

Ironically, I have had just as much difficulty in finding a proper pub in Scotland. The best ones are mostly in England and Ireland, IME. Fighting talk, I know.

Mostly, the problem is restrictive licencing laws. Prohibition is gone, but it's spectre lingers on in the shape of all kinds of pettifogging restrictions.

[Paul]

I am curious if Paul. will have the same experience at the Barrowland in Glasgow in April when this band performs there. The venue requires 14+ I think it might be interesting to compare the experiences of the two sides of the puddle at a Celtic Punk concert of the same performers, in two separate social and cultural centres.

I believe that just like the perception of what a pub is, a concert will also have some different perceptions as well.

Slainte

I've been to plenty of American bands' gigs and it does seem to be a different atmosphere to the shows in the USA I've seen. Although it's over 14's - there's obviously a bar and there's still a lot of people getting drunk. I'd say the kids around 14 who go to these things are mentality prepared to do so... especially because of the amount of beer that ends up getting thrown around - as well as the terrible smell!
I experienced many of these gigs when I was 12-14 - which was before the Smoking, Health & Social Care act in Scotland. I was very much exposed to people smoking and drinking at these events and it really made this seem normal to me, at the time.
Today I'd say it's a slightly different situation. There's a lot of enforcements of law on not just smoking - but for venues to toughen up where people are allowed to take the drinks they buy at the bar and I've witnessed this is the last few shows I've been to. But kids will be exposed to this at concerts.

As far as pubs - I've seen sme in the States but they don't really reflect what I've experienced in Europe. I think it's more of a cultural thing as most of the establishments in the USA that call themselves "pubs" seem to be themed towardsan aspect of European culture e.g. Irish Pub.

[Lachlan09]

This paragraph pretty much describes many of the immigrant saloons that dotted America's major urban areas in the late 19th and early 20th century as well.

T.

Aye, Cajun, the problem is that in Scotland, these types of pubs were still on the go in the 1970's onward !

I remember going through to Glasgow in 1976 to see The Who, Alex Harvey, Little Feat etc at Parkhead (Glasgow Celtic FC’s stadium) and we strolled into a pub in London Road, near the ground. First off, it was like a Western when the strangers come through the door. Everything stopped ! Conversations halted in mid-sentence sort of thing. The pub was chairless and table-less. We made an order and the barman, seeing a woman in our midst and hearing our strange foreign accents (Edinburgh and the East of Scotland), ushered us through to the back-room, where there were decrepit chairs and tables. The locals’ eyes followed us. When the drinks arrived, I took my pint and as I started to drink out of the straight-sided glass, I felt a clunk ! against my teeth. It was part of a rim from another glass ! Probably the remnants of a fracas the night-before.