Why a kilt costs what it does...a re-re-re-hash

[Riverkilt]

The way I look at it as a consumer, I'm paying for Robert Pel's craftsmanship, Kathy Lare's craftsmanship, or Rocky, Kelly, and Mac's craftsmanship. The leather, wool, PV and all the fittings are free.

[bricelythgoe]

I have to say that it is painful to hear someone say the "supposedly low" profits in kiltmaking. As if we're trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes and sneak some profits in there by lying about costs or about how long it takes to make a kilt.

I was just making this point: If there is little to be made in kilt making, then how do people make a living doing it? There has to be money made somewhere, unless it is just a part-time thing. If it is not made in the kilt, than it is made elsewhere.

As far as "pulling the wool over someones eyes" I enjoyed the pun, but do not believe that you do that. Just because a user on here or even a kilt maker on here says it, does not mean it is true. I will always call into questions someone that says something MUST cost a lot of money. Red flags fly up all over the place when I hear that.

[pdcorlis]

The way I look at it as a consumer, I'm paying for Robert Pel's craftsmanship, Kathy Lare's craftsmanship, or Rocky, Kelly, and Mac's craftsmanship. The leather, wool, PV and all the fittings are free.

You are so right brother Ron. Getting a kilt from any of the master kiltmakers mentioned in this thread is a real world bargain. Those cheap p^#ts mentioned by Alan will be ready for the rubbish bin in nothing flat. A quality handmade kilt will be admired and worn by generations.

[wildrover]

x3 what Phil and Ron said.

Remember "faster, better, cheaper"?

-Sean

[RockyR]

No offense to anyone on here and I know I will get quite the response from this. But look at a perfect example: Skye Highland Outfitters. They offer an 8 yard, made to measure PV kilt for 189.00. The next closest company, that I know of, that sells PV, made to measure, will cost you (at my size) 240.00 or more. Plus their is not even 8 yards. Josh found a way to sell a better product, with a faster finish time, for less money. Plus, the quality is the same if not better than most.

As the "other company" that you allude to, I'll point out a few things (leaving our biased opinions of the kilt quality aside for our customers to judge):

When you deal with a store with a storefront, there are automatcially more costs involved. Rent, Electric, Internet access, phones, employees, business insurance, fixtures, etc all cost money. I bring up electric and phone and internet b/c those of us with a shop AND a home have 2 bills of each to pay every month, not 1.

Then there's inventory itself (holding inventory and not ordering things 'as needed'). It costs a lot to keep a shop fully stocked to look nice and have selection.

Re: the turnaround time, you have to take into account the size of the company and the amount of traffic they see. If company 1 has 10 orders and company 2 has 60 orders, it will probably take company 2 a little longer to get through those orders. It's not good or bad... it just is what it is. Heck, some kiltmakers have a 12 month turnaround time and people still line up knowing that fact!

It's all about finding a balance that works for the business owner and the consumer. If I wanted to work out of my house, I could, but I have a personal 'pet peeve'. I don't ever buy anything (sight unseen with VERY FEW exceptions) from a company without a storefront location, so we choose to ALWAYS offer that to our customers. We, as a company, think it adds a level of professionalism and reassurance to customers that they can visit the retailer at their store... ESPECIALLY when you're dropping $100 on a Casual Kilt or $1300 (or more) on a Premier Package. I like to SEE where my money is going and know it's to an established business that will be there in a few months time.

Please note: I'm not knocking any company WITHOUT a storefront (in fact, I know Josh personally and like him... heck, we've discussed this same topic before). I'm just stating my opinion and our company thoughts on it.

Capitalism is all about 'building the better mousetrap' or doing something faster / cheaper. I only bring up the points above to help show people where that 'extra money' goes to. It's not hidden in my Yacht, nor is it hidden in my lavish Costa Rican condo.

[Alan H]

Brice, I think it's because the people who make kilts really love making kilts...and....there are people around who will pay for the high quality.

I have seen a couple of Freedom kilts close up. I've inspected them, looked at the stitching, looked at the construction, felt the material. A Freedom kilts kicks the proverbial butt off any X-Kilt, unless it's made by a professional. I've seen some R-kilts, and inspected them close up. They are in a whole other league from any home-made X-Kilt.

I know that Steve needs to sell some socks, a sporran or two, maybe a t-shirt of two to keep afloat. How Robert does it, I can't guess.

I know that when I was unemployed a couple of years ago, right when I had finished the first X-Kilt manual, I thought about going into business as a kiltmaker. I crunched the number three or four times and then I rejected the idea on the simple basis of dollars and cents.

Brice, have you made a kilt? Have you made five or ten kilts? I suggest that you do that, and THEN talk about how it can be done in the USA for better, faster and cheaper. Oh, and while you're at it, talk to the people in Texas who used to stitch up Levi Strauss blue jeans...but don't anymore because their jobs left for labor overseas which costs 1/20th as much.

I looked into the costs of running a small operation producing maybe 500 - 1000 kilts a year, and having the things sewn up in a maquila in El Salvador. At that volume, without me going totally full-time and more, I couldn't even break even. Up that volume by a factor of 20 and then I might be able to make some money, and sell a $100 contemporary kilt. But tell me about the market out there for 20,000 kilts a year, for five or six years.

[BrettH]

My thoughts match Rocky's fairly closely - whenever I can, I choose to buy in person, from a physical location. Back 6 years ago, I bought everything online. In between, I worked at a physical retail store, became a manager, and became steeped in the philosophies of locally owned businesses. Yes, you pay more when you buy locally, but you generally are dealing with people who not only know their products, but are passionate about their industry (or hobby, depending on who you talk to).

The same thing applies to kiltmaking: If you're making enough to even just scrape by, loving what you do makes scraping by a lot easier. If you make enough to be a little more comfortable, then you're doing something right business-wise, too! If your product is high enough quality that people are willing to spend a good chunk of change on it, then by all means you deserve that money.

As a consumer, if you're not willing to spend $X on a product, then you have to realize that you're restricting the quality of product that you're going to get. (Alternatively also, you're paying more for a product of the same quality that's made in your country, if your philosophies run that way)

[toadinakilt]

Personally, I have a great deal of respect for all kiltmakers. If kilts become trendy and popular and JC Penny starts carrying them for $60 a pop, I'll weep.

What is that quote from the STM website...

"I do not prize the word 'cheap.' It is not a badge of honor. It is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country.” -- Wm. McKinley

If I order a kilt from Matt, or Rocky, or Steve... whomever, knowing that the kilt will be stellar is more important to me than the price. It's sad that they can't make a bundle on it... I wish it were possible to make $$$ from kiltmaking.

[bricelythgoe]

It's all about finding a balance that works for the business owner and the consumer. If I wanted to work out of my house, I could, but I have a personal 'pet peeve'. I don't ever buy anything (sight unseen with VERY FEW exceptions) from a company without a storefront location, so we choose to ALWAYS offer that to our customers. We, as a company, think it adds a level of professionalism and reassurance to customers that they can visit the retailer at their store... ESPECIALLY when you're dropping $100 on a Casual Kilt or $1300 (or more) on a Premier Package. I like to SEE where my money is going and know it's to an established business that will be there in a few months time.

I guess that works for people that live nearby. For me, being in Utah, that had no bearing on why I purchased originally from you.

Brice, I think it's because the people who make kilts really love making kilts...and....there are people around who will pay for the high quality.

Brice, have you made a kilt? Have you made five or ten kilts? I suggest that you do that, and THEN talk about how it can be done in the USA for better, faster and cheaper. Oh, and while you're at it, talk to the people in Texas who used to stitch up Levi Strauss blue jeans...but don't anymore because their jobs left for labor overseas which costs 1/20th as much.

I agree with your first statement. They love to make kilts. All the people you mention probably make a fine kilt. My only point was that they have to make money somewhere. I bet that Rocky or Steve is making more than 7 dollars an hour. Which is fine. I think he deserves 40-50 dollars an hour. If the money is not made in the kilt, than it is made else where. I am betting there is a high mark up on accessories.

I have no desire to make kilts. However, I am familiair with our economic system. Capitalism is a beautiful thing. One thing it will ALWAYS do is provide better product, in less time, for less money. It always goes that way. Never underestimate the spirit of an American entrepreneur. If they do a good job, and make a better product, they will stick around. If their product sucks, then no one will buy.

The idea that you can't make it better, do it faster, and for less money in the USA is absolutely not true. Ask USAK or SHO about that.

[RockyR]

Brice,

The problem is, you're comparing apples to oranges... at least when discussing low end kilts (our Casual / Semi Trad) and Josh's PV models against Scotland's WOOL kilts. Our prices for 8 yard wool kilts are the same (roughly speaking) as those you get in Scotland. The quality is also on par with Scottish 8 yard kilts.

Also... about the 'physical store' thing: I'm not saying that I need to buy everything from the brick and mortar store itself. I am saying that I buy products from companies that HAVE a brick and mortar store (with very few exceptions). I may purchase from a company online, but I choose to purchase from one with a physical store as well. It limits the company's ability to just 'up and leave' with my money.

Again, I'm NOT saying any particular company (including SHO) would ever do that. What I AM saying is that it's re-assuring to me as a shopper and we choose to carry the philosophy over to our retail company.