Why a kilt costs what it does...a re-re-re-hash

[bricelythgoe]

My point is that the price for a Utilikilt is pretty much right about where it should be, for the product. It's made in the USA and the people sewing them up make USA wages.

If it's more important to you to save $100 than to buy something made here, then you can buy a contemporary kilt made in Pakistan or Indonesia.

Or...and I think this is the best option....you can learn to make them yourself. But quit the complaining about how much a kilt costs. NOBODY is getting rich in this business.

An interesting thread. Your thread made me think. If there is SO MUCH money to be lost, not made, in making kilts, then why are there so many places that do it? You can get online and find company after company that will sell you a custom made kilt. If I am not mistaken, I am looking JUST at this page on xmarks and see 11 advertisers that make custom kilts, in one form or another. Granted, they are not becoming rich off of it. However, why would so many places exist if one could only make 10-12 dollars an hour (or R-kilt guy that makes 7 dollars an hour)? I am a school teacher and I have to have two jobs in order to make the money I need and I am making WAY MORE than what the average kilt maker supposedly makes. My SECOND job nets me more than 20 dollars an hour. Things are just not adding up to me.

I can understand that you would make kilts because you love it. I have lots of things I LOVE to do, but that does not mean I can make a living at it. I do not see how all these people make kilts and survive, unless it is just a part time thing. Obviously the person from Rkilts is full time. Lets use him as an example. Lets assume he works 7 days a week, 12 hours a day, at the LUCKY 7 dollars an hour. That adds up to: 588 dollars a week. That would not pay for rent/mortgage, especially if you have any children. Not sure how that guy even lives on that, considering that is income without any taxes being taken out.

I have several points to make with this. First, if what you are saying is EXACTLY right, no one could survive on just making kilts. The money has to be made somewhere. If you are correct, then I must assume that any accessories these companies offer have a HUGE mark up to compensate for the supposed low profit in the kilts (maybe that is why sporrans cost as much as a kilt).

I also want to make sure people realize that although some things on this thread might be correct, someone can always come along and do it better, quicker, and sometimes a lot less expensive. Many kilt purchasers are stuck in the thought that a quality kilt, made in the USA, MUST cost lots of money. Not true! Our economy works in wonderful ways. This is one of the most beautiful. You find a way to make the same product, just as good as the other guys, but charge less. Red flags are raised ALL OVER THE PLACE when someone tries to tell me that a certain item MUST cost a lot of money and there is nothing that you can do about it. When anyone says that something MUST cost a lot of money, I am wary of it and usually be careful about believing what they say.

No offense to anyone on here and I know I will get quite the response from this. But look at a perfect example: Skye Highland Outfitters. They offer an 8 yard, made to measure PV kilt for 189.00. The next closest company, that I know of, that sells PV, made to measure, will cost you (at my size) 240.00 or more. Plus their is not even 8 yards. Josh found a way to sell a better product, with a faster finish time, for less money. Plus, the quality is the same if not better than most.

Let the anger and retribution begin!!

[Barb T]

I have to say that it is painful to hear someone say the "supposedly low" profits in kiltmaking. As if we're trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes and sneak some profits in there by lying about costs or about how long it takes to make a kilt.

I've been making kilts for many years. I make kilts by hand using traditional methods. I sew fast (ask Steve Ashton - he's watched me make kilts). I do not cut corners in terms of the interior construction that no one can see but that is critical to a kilt that will stand up to years and years of hard wear. I do not cut corners in the tailor basting that helps hold a kilt for proper pressing and shaping. I don't have a standard formula - each kilt is custom designed to the measurements and the person's shape. From the time I open a package of tartan that I've ordered from a mill to the end of removing all the basting, it takes me about 20 hours to make a kilt. Could someone do it faster? Sure. They could take fewer stitches in the pleats. They could be less careful about matching the stripes or making the pleats exactly the right size. They could leave out the tailor basting and interior construction. Could someone do it faster *and* better? To be honest, I would challenge anyone on that point.

I charge $325 plus the cost of the tartan for a kilt. That $325 also includes the cost of buckles, straps, canvas, lining, and thread. So, I'm not actually making $325 profit. It takes me 20 hours to make a kilt - you can do the math to see the fabulous "hidden profits" that I am making in this business....

[MacBean]

The kilt to pants price ratio is startling, but not because kilts seem expensive. Instead, the price of pants is amazingly low. Consider the shipping from far-off lands, labels, pricing, warehousing, ordering, stocking, sales clerks salaries, management, rent, taxes, etc., I'm suprised that they can sell them for what they do even if they obtained them for free. As for the folk abroad who make them, and all the folk down south who no longer make them... Anyway, Alan's figures are probably way low.

[bricelythgoe]

I have to say that it is painful to hear someone say the "supposedly low" profits in kiltmaking. As if we're trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes and sneak some profits in there by lying about costs or about how long it takes to make a kilt.

I was just making this point: If there is little to be made in kilt making, then how do people make a living doing it? There has to be money made somewhere, unless it is just a part-time thing. If it is not made in the kilt, than it is made elsewhere.

As far as "pulling the wool over someones eyes" I enjoyed the pun, but do not believe that you do that. Just because a user on here or even a kilt maker on here says it, does not mean it is true. I will always call into questions someone that says something MUST cost a lot of money. Red flags fly up all over the place when I hear that.

[techdragon]

I was just making this point: If there is little to be made in kilt making, then how do people make a living doing it? There has to be money made somewhere, unless it is just a part-time thing. If it is not made in the kilt, than it is made elsewhere.

It is tricky but do-able. I have been making kilts by hand for 4 years now and it supports me and my two kids as I work full day, six days a week at it. The big shows I do each year are a great bonus. It is little made on each kilt but the volume - I can do about 200 kilts a year a a good solid pace - makes it work.

-Jeanie

[Barb T]

And I know that many of you on this forum know this, but I make kilts because I love to make kilts. I truly enjoy getting to know (typically electronically) the people I make kilts for, and I get a great deal of pleasure from how much they enjoy my work. I am a professional kiltmaker, but I frankly don't try to make a living at it.

My main money-earning profession is as a professor of geology. I love that too. I love to teach, and I love the opportunities that I have to do research in Iceland and Egypt, and it keeps my synapses snapping. Quite honestly, I know myself well enough to know that I would go quietly batty if I made kilts 100% of the time.

But - even though I do not try to make a living as a kiltmaker, I firmly believe that it is unfair both to me and to other kiltmakers to undercut in terms of cost, just because I am not trying to make a living as a kiltmaker. So, my labor costs are on par with what other good kiltmakers charge. Do I make a lot of $$ making kilts? No. Does it make a difference in my life? Yes. I now have a young graduate student in Egypt. The money that I earn making kilts has made it possible for me to tell her that I will be able to come to Egypt and do field work with her, regardless of whether the National Science Foundation decides to fund my recent grant proposal.

Some of us make a living by kiltmaking; some of us are kiltmakers but don't make a living at it. We are equally professional.

[slohairt]

Barb raises a very good point: It is important to charge the 'going rate' even if you only make kilts part-time, or just as a hobby. Many individuals who work in a craft find it irritating when someone comes along and just works for 'cost' because they regard it as simply a fun past-time.

It's also worth noting that kilt-making is, for some, a family tradition and a 'culturally significant' activity. (For me it is both.) Not too many people can say that about their job, and you can't really put a price on that either.

[RockyR]

No offense to anyone on here and I know I will get quite the response from this. But look at a perfect example: Skye Highland Outfitters. They offer an 8 yard, made to measure PV kilt for 189.00. The next closest company, that I know of, that sells PV, made to measure, will cost you (at my size) 240.00 or more. Plus their is not even 8 yards. Josh found a way to sell a better product, with a faster finish time, for less money. Plus, the quality is the same if not better than most.

As the "other company" that you allude to, I'll point out a few things (leaving our biased opinions of the kilt quality aside for our customers to judge):

When you deal with a store with a storefront, there are automatcially more costs involved. Rent, Electric, Internet access, phones, employees, business insurance, fixtures, etc all cost money. I bring up electric and phone and internet b/c those of us with a shop AND a home have 2 bills of each to pay every month, not 1.

Then there's inventory itself (holding inventory and not ordering things 'as needed'). It costs a lot to keep a shop fully stocked to look nice and have selection.

Re: the turnaround time, you have to take into account the size of the company and the amount of traffic they see. If company 1 has 10 orders and company 2 has 60 orders, it will probably take company 2 a little longer to get through those orders. It's not good or bad... it just is what it is. Heck, some kiltmakers have a 12 month turnaround time and people still line up knowing that fact!

It's all about finding a balance that works for the business owner and the consumer. If I wanted to work out of my house, I could, but I have a personal 'pet peeve'. I don't ever buy anything (sight unseen with VERY FEW exceptions) from a company without a storefront location, so we choose to ALWAYS offer that to our customers. We, as a company, think it adds a level of professionalism and reassurance to customers that they can visit the retailer at their store... ESPECIALLY when you're dropping $100 on a Casual Kilt or $1300 (or more) on a Premier Package. I like to SEE where my money is going and know it's to an established business that will be there in a few months time.

Please note: I'm not knocking any company WITHOUT a storefront (in fact, I know Josh personally and like him... heck, we've discussed this same topic before). I'm just stating my opinion and our company thoughts on it.

Capitalism is all about 'building the better mousetrap' or doing something faster / cheaper. I only bring up the points above to help show people where that 'extra money' goes to. It's not hidden in my Yacht, nor is it hidden in my lavish Costa Rican condo.

[Alan H]

Brice, I think it's because the people who make kilts really love making kilts...and....there are people around who will pay for the high quality.

I have seen a couple of Freedom kilts close up. I've inspected them, looked at the stitching, looked at the construction, felt the material. A Freedom kilts kicks the proverbial butt off any X-Kilt, unless it's made by a professional. I've seen some R-kilts, and inspected them close up. They are in a whole other league from any home-made X-Kilt.

I know that Steve needs to sell some socks, a sporran or two, maybe a t-shirt of two to keep afloat. How Robert does it, I can't guess.

I know that when I was unemployed a couple of years ago, right when I had finished the first X-Kilt manual, I thought about going into business as a kiltmaker. I crunched the number three or four times and then I rejected the idea on the simple basis of dollars and cents.

Brice, have you made a kilt? Have you made five or ten kilts? I suggest that you do that, and THEN talk about how it can be done in the USA for better, faster and cheaper. Oh, and while you're at it, talk to the people in Texas who used to stitch up Levi Strauss blue jeans...but don't anymore because their jobs left for labor overseas which costs 1/20th as much.

I looked into the costs of running a small operation producing maybe 500 - 1000 kilts a year, and having the things sewn up in a maquila in El Salvador. At that volume, without me going totally full-time and more, I couldn't even break even. Up that volume by a factor of 20 and then I might be able to make some money, and sell a $100 contemporary kilt. But tell me about the market out there for 20,000 kilts a year, for five or six years.

[toadinakilt]

Personally, I have a great deal of respect for all kiltmakers. If kilts become trendy and popular and JC Penny starts carrying them for $60 a pop, I'll weep.

What is that quote from the STM website...

"I do not prize the word 'cheap.' It is not a badge of honor. It is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country.” -- Wm. McKinley

If I order a kilt from Matt, or Rocky, or Steve... whomever, knowing that the kilt will be stellar is more important to me than the price. It's sad that they can't make a bundle on it... I wish it were possible to make $$$ from kiltmaking.