Post Your Granted, Assumed or Desired Arms

[WVHighlander]

Bringing this back one more time. After some thought I may have to go toward something a bit different.

Argent, a fess gules between in chief, a raven beaked and armed sable, between two cross Moline sable, and in base a bear rampant of the third.

I think I have that right.

[Chas]

Bringing this back one more time. After some thought I may have to go toward something a bit different.

Argent, a fess gules between in chief, a raven beaked and armed sable, between two cross Moline sable, and in base a bear rampant of the third.

I think I have that right.

Hi,

I think the blazon would be better as:

Argent between in base a bear rampant and in chief between two crosses moline a raven beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

One normally blazons the chief first and then work downwards but this way it separates the two 'betweens' and also elliminates the 'of the third'.

Giving you something like this:



Regards

Chas

[English Bloke]

Please excuse my higgorance. I know little to naught of heraldry. I appreciate there may be some ettiquette issues but what is the actual legality of drawing up arms on the back of an envelope with a box of crayons and without any formal process, displaying it on your t-shirt, car sticker, signet ring, tattoo on right cheek, whatever.

Not asking for legal advice here by the way. Just a general, legally you can do what you like or No you can be prosecuted type steer... I'm also aware it's probably not the done thing.

No intention of going down any roads either, just curious is all.

Cheers!

[Chas]

Hi John,

There are certain conventions or rules as to how a shield is drawn up, but they are more common sense than anything else. It is, after all, about recognition - either originally on the battlefield or more recently identifying possessions.

There are in general two routes, official and unofficial. The official route (in England, Wales and N. Ireland) is through the College of Arms in London or Lord Lyon in Scotland. The unofficial route is more or less as you have described and is known as self assumption.

The official route will cost under £5,000 from the College or £3,500 from Lord Lyon. The unofficial route costs only what you wish to pay for printing or embroidering.

In England, Wales and N. Ireland there is little or no protection. That is to say that you can pay £5,000 and another man can decide to use your arms as his own. It would be a civil suit through the courts to make him stop.

In Scotland the law is on the side of the armiger and Lord Lyon can sit in his court and make a decision. His word on the matter is law and he has, in theory, unlimited powers. It cost Mohamed Al Fayed (of Harrods fame) almost £1 million, because he ignored Lord Lyon.

So yes, you can hack something up on the back of a fag packet and use it as your own and provided it is suitably different from anything that has gone before and doesn't brake any artistic rules, no one will say anything about it.

Regards

Chas

[English Bloke]

Cheers Chas, thank you.

[WVHighlander]

Chas,

Thank you for the draw up. I think it looks great. I did have a question on the raven...is it possible (with in the etiquette and tradition of heraldry) to have the raven displayed with its wings outstretched? (Like you would normally see a falcon or eagle.)

John

[Harold Cannon]

Here are a few of the things I have come up with. Our very own SLACKERDRUMMER helped me tweek my origional idea and make something really awesome. I think so anyway!









I would really appreciate it if someone would blazon my arms for me as I am not very good at the terminology.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Chas,

Thank you for the draw up. I think it looks great. I did have a question on the raven...is it possible (with in the etiquette and tradition of heraldry) to have the raven displayed with its wings outstretched? (Like you would normally see a falcon or eagle.)

John

The short answer is "yes", a raven may be blazoned as "displayed" (that is, with it's wings outstretched) in the same manner as any other bird.

[Chas]

Chas,

Thank you for the draw up. I think it looks great. I did have a question on the raven...is it possible (with in the etiquette and tradition of heraldry) to have the raven displayed with its wings outstretched? (Like you would normally see a falcon or eagle.)

John

Hi John,

The quick answer is yes. For example, you could have a raven riding a unicycle, if for some reason it was important to you (I don't know, a play on words or a job reference or some such).

But, we come back to a quotation oft heard here "Just because you can, does not mean you should"

The whole idea of heraldry was originally recognition and to that end certain elements are drawn in a certain way so that they will be instantly recognised. From a distance of 200 yards could an archer tell whether your shield bore an eagle displayed or a raven displayed - probably not, given the state of drawing skills of 400 years ago. Does it matter? To the man being shot it does - especially if he is the wrong man.

That is why we tend to have default positions. A really good example of this is the elongated, skinny, anorexic lions of England.



It doesn't matter whether they are anatomically correct or not. What matters is that they are recognisable.

The same is true of your raven. The default position is with the wings closed or 'close' in heraldic terms. The raven or corbie is quite traditional in Scottish heraldry, but only in that exact stance. So much so that the programme I used to depict your arms only allows for the one stance. I can change the size and the colour of feathers, beak and talons, but not the stance.

So, yes it can be done, but I am unable to do it.

Regards

Chas

[WVHighlander]

So with those helpful lessons on language I would be looking at something like this:

Argent between in base a bear rampant, fangs bared, armed and langued gules and in chief between two crosses moline a raven displayed, beaked and armed Sable a fess Gules.

Is that about right??