Here's a new version of The Question!

[Nighthawk]

Well, if you don't know how to dress yourself, you shouldn't get upset when people call you on it. My daughter wanted to go put in her first-ever job application tonight. I refused to let her do in her pijammas. Quite frankly, when you do something to call attention to yourself, you take the attention that comes your way.

[English Bloke]

Provided all is decent ie. bits are not being flashed, it matters not what a person wears. And there is no excuse for jamming a handheld radio between her legs to investigate either. Put yourself in her position kilties.

If the lady did have shorts on there isn't a problem and if the attendant couldn't see the shorts then he couldn't see anything else either so again, what's the problem? There shouldn't be a dress code on a plane. Me thinks these aviationists are a bit up themselves, it's a flying bus when all said and done.

As for saggy pants guy at the end of the story. I don't like them at all but I'm not offended by them. I wouldn't stop anyone wearing them either. No reason to eject someone from a flight. You might be able to see his underpants but you can't see the crack of his ar*e so again, so what?

JetBlue? I'll not be flying with them ever (not that it's likely I might have)...

[Nighthawk]

Provided all is decent ie. bits are not being flashed, it matters not what a person wears. And there is no excuse for jamming a handheld radio between her legs to investigate either. Put yourself in her position kilties.

If the lady did have shorts on there isn't a problem and if the attendant couldn't see the shorts then he couldn't see anything else either so again, what's the problem? There shouldn't be a dress code on a plane. Me thinks these aviationists are a bit up themselves, it's a flying bus when all said and done.

As for saggy pants guy at the end of the story. I don't like them at all but I'm not offended by them. I wouldn't stop anyone wearing them either. No reason to eject someone from a flight. You might be able to see his underpants but you can't see the crack of his ar*e so again, so what?

JetBlue? I'll not be flying with them ever (not that it's likely I might have)...

The handheld radio bit... Yeah, if that happened, that was of course totally uncalled for. And if the lady did have shorts on, then what was her problem showing it? It goes from a simple question of dignity to outright defiance. Jet Blue is a privately owned airline, and as such, if you use it, you accept their rules. So long as those rules don't violate your privacy. Simply making sure a person is clothed decently doesn't violate anyone's privacy. On the subject of the saggy pants thing... Jet Blue is a privately owned company. If you don't like their dress code, fly with someone else!

[English Bloke]

The handheld radio bit... Yeah, if that happened, that was of course totally uncalled for. And if the lady did have shorts on, then what was her problem showing it? It goes from a simple question of dignity to outright defiance. Jet Blue is a privately owned airline, and as such, if you use it, you accept their rules. So long as those rules don't violate your privacy. Simply making sure a person is clothed decently doesn't violate anyone's privacy. On the subject of the saggy pants thing... Jet Blue is a privately owned company. If you don't like their dress code, fly with someone else!

My emphasis in bold

You sound cross with me Nighthawk. I just might do that, and here's why.

Mmmmm... Private company providing a public service, It's not a private service...

Why should she have to lift her shirt to show her shorts? I don't understand that. If she had been wearing a skirt and was asked to lift that, the public would be rightly outraged and the attendant probably fired. I don't see the difference. If I was ever asked to lift my kilt to prove my under-crackers, the response would be sharp, probably two worded and starting and ending in "F". They would get more than defiance let me tell you!

I wouldn't fly with them now that I know that passenger harassment and physical assault are a company policy. I pick and choose who I give my money to. There are a couple of airlines and some other (not related to aviation) companies I will never deal with again having experienced their very poor customer service so I have no qualms about not flying with this lot. They don't do UK as far as I know so it's academic but hey, you never know.

Incidentally, I have no problem abiding by anybody's rules if those rules are clear at the onset. Does this private company advertise their dress code boldly so customers are fully aware of the conditions before they part with their cash, ie. clear statement to the effect:

"NO T-shirt dresses allowed onboard our aircraft" or similar words;

or is it tucked away in the tiny print so they can spring it on busy people who don't have time to read pages of T&C's but use it as an ar*e covering exercise when trouble looms? Does it also state:

"Persons failing to comply with our company policy on dress can expect to be accosted and manhandled by our flight attendants?"

I doubt it, I dunno and frankly I don't care. I just hate draconian, nit-pickyness without good reason. Nudity in public? Not to be tolerated. No nudity? No problem. It all smacks of corporate bullying to me, We have the power so we will exercise it...

From the evidence provided by the story, and assuming it is accurate, I think the attendant overstepped the mark. If this is found to be true, it is HE who should face the music and the passenger should be compensated...

[Mark Stephenson]

I think English Bloke makes some very good points. We should not have to give up fundamental civil liberties to step out into the public. In this case, there would be no difference in my mind if Jet Blue were to ask us to prove we were wearing underwear under our kilts. If one is not showing indecent amount of skin, then it's no one's business. Owning a private company (such as jet blue) does not give you the right to ask what is under your clothing.

[longhuntr74]

To say that harrassment is a company policy is just plain silly...

If I have a choice, I'd choose JetBlue over every other airline in the US hands down! Their seats are wider and have more leg room. Their aircraft interiors are very nice with features you only find in first class in every other airline provided to ALL passengers. Their JFK terminal is the nicest airline terminal I've ever been in.

I'm not defending them over this incident...I wasn't there and don't know what happened or didn't. None of you were there either...so to make hasty judgements about an entire airline is a bit over the top, I believe. If the story about the radio is true...well yes she should win her lawsuit. But it's important to realize that it's the guy that did it and not the company that's to blame...Not that the company won't be held financially liable...they ARE legally responsible for the actions of their employees. I'm just pointing out the fact that I'm sure it's not company policy to put your handheld radio between a person's legs and demand to see up under their skirt.

On the other hand...I have personal bias against people that don't have proper upbringing to know what's acceptable wear in public and what's considered pajamas...or the decency to not intentionally show the entire public their underwear. I enjoy establishments where there is a dress code that enforces decency...so long as the dress code is clear, enforced fairly, etc.

[English Bloke]

I agree I wasn't there. I understand the individual attendant is at fault, but all customer facing employees are the face of the company they work for. I think I said something to that effect.

...I think the attendant overstepped the mark. If this is found to be true, it is HE who should face the music...

The extent of that music will be down to the company as they are ultimately responsible, assuming he hasn't actually committed an offence he is individually responsible for. Like you say, I wasn't there.

I may too have egged the pudding by suggesting it was a "company policy" to harangue passengers who don't meet certain standards but then something motivated their employee (and representative) to act in such a bizarre manner which was the point I was trying to get across.

I'm sure they are all jolly nice people and I'm glad you find their service top notch. Always good to see it from another angle. (no sarcasm intended)

... I enjoy establishments where there is a dress code that enforces decency...so long as the dress code is clear, enforced fairly, etc...

Believe it or not, I too enjoy establishments with dress codes with the same provisos as yourself.

I also am not keen on the current styling that assumes I and all others want to see the wearer's Calvins but I do know people who get a bit jumpy when I wear my Kilt so it would be a little hypocritical of me to demand they don't dress as they choose.

And a person's upbringing and resultant attitude to respectable dress can't, in my opinion be held against them. They've either been taught respectability or they haven't. They either know or they don't so I endeavour not to judge people by the clothes they wear based on my own preferences. I have also found to my delight that some of the weirdest looking people are by far and away the most interesting.

Anywhoo. On the grounds I wasn't there and therefore can't hold an opinion on the issue. I'm out of this one. Probably shouldn't have kicked off in the first place but I just can't abide rudeness, especially when I'm being asked to pay for it. It proper gets my dander up!

I'll post some pictures next week... It keeps me quiet that. (There is a touch of sarcasm in that last, sorry!)

[WillieMacG]

Me thinks these aviationists are a bit up themselves, it's a flying bus when all said and done.

Exactly.