Sgian Dubh Outside the Hose?

[The Wizard of BC]

I had a customer come into the shop with an antique Sgain that had a spring clip on the outside of the sheath. The Clan Crest was mounted on the clip. Exactly like the one shown here.

I was wondering what the clip was for. I had thought that it would clip to the top of the hose but this makes it perfectly clear.

Sadly I did not take a photo.

[piperdbh]

I smell a challenge for our metalsmiths and leather crafters: a little loop of metal or leather attached to the back of the knife sheath, through which a garter would pass before being tied 'round the leg. Hmmm...

[The Wizard of BC]

Actually the one I saw had the spring clip on the outside of the sheath. The Sgain went between the hose and the garter and clipped onto the garter at the knot.

Sort of like a holster or cell phone belt clip on the outer side of the sheath.

[MacLowlife]

I have a cheap boot knife with a clip on the sheath, but it strikes me as even more likely to pull your sock down- or require you to tie your garter awfully tight.

There is a physics problem hidden here somewhere: Does a knife IN your sock exert more or less downward force than one clipped to the top of your sock?

I recognize that it could be hooked only to the garter, but then you have the additional problem of it flopping around. I suppose you could pass the garter through a couple of slits like some belt sheaths have, but it seems wrong to me, just wrong and troublesome...

[madmacs]

There is a physics problem hidden here somewhere: Does a knife IN your sock exert more or less downward force than one clipped to the top of your sock?

That actually sounds more like an engineering problem... The downward force is im guessing techically the same... Mass x gravity... But if it's in your sock its only really got the lever arm above the sock trying to tip it over, but if it's pivot point on the outside, then that's not the case... But it's been 20 years since I had to do that stuff in school, so i'll leave it for a proper Engineer to answer... I can make water go uphill though...

[artificer]

That actually sounds more like an engineering problem... The downward force is im guessing techically the same... Mass x gravity... But if it's in your sock its only really got the lever arm above the sock trying to tip it over, but if it's pivot point on the outside, then that's not the case... But it's been 20 years since I had to do that stuff in school, so i'll leave it for a proper Engineer to answer... I can make water go uphill though...

There is also the friction of the sheath against the hose / skin to factor in, especially when compared against a "free floating" tether of just a garter and clip.

Luckily, I passed out of AP Physics in high school, and don't have much to do with it any more. I'll leave THAT up to my more skilled betters.

ith:

[Tobus]

There is also the friction of the sheath against the hose / skin to factor in, especially when compared against a "free floating" tether of just a garter and clip.

Luckily, I passed out of AP Physics in high school, and don't have much to do with it any more. I'll leave THAT up to my more skilled betters.

ith:

Exactly right. And I am a professional engineer!

With the sgian dubh inside the hose, you get the benefit of friction between the sgian and the skin, as well as the friction between the sgian and the hose. The compression of the entire portion of the sgian that's inside there, helps keep it from falling (and could be calculated if we knew the coefficient of friction for each surface, as well as the compression force).

And aside from the friction forces keeping it from sliding down, there's also the stabilizing force keeping it from swinging as you walk. With the sgian dubh only strapped to the outside with a garter, you get a pendulum effect from both the mass above the tie and the mass below the tie, making it want to rotate about the tie point. A clip would help with that, but it's only as good as the surface it's clipped to... which is just the garter itself.

In short, it would be more trouble than it's worth, methinks.

I do find it curious, though, that such a key component of Highland attire could be drawn in error. As much as people like to point to these old catalogs as references, it's worth a caveat.

[Cygnus]

I had a customer come into the shop with an antique Sgain that had a spring clip on the outside of the sheath. The Clan Crest was mounted on the clip. Exactly like the one shown here.

I was wondering what the clip was for. I had thought that it would clip to the top of the hose but this makes it perfectly clear.

Sadly I did not take a photo.

I really wish you had been able to get a photo - various internet searches haven't shown anything so far.

Like I said, I actually like the way it looks (whether traditional or not) and would like to see the real thing before deciding if I want to pursue having one made or modifying an existing sgian dubh.

Maybe somebody else on here has one or has pictures of something similar...

[Old Hippie]

I'm with Dale. It may be a "from life" concept, but by reading way too much into the picture I can say that while these lads may be quite manly and athletic, they've clearly only strolled from the table to the library for a smoke and some dirty jokes while the ladies retire to the drawing-room.

A sgian worn outside the hose would flop, at any pace faster than a mosey. (Did they "mosey" in Scotland?) Just looks like someone carrying the supposed tradition of revealing any knife retained about the person a little farther than most.

And geesh! He's smoking a cigarette when clearly the etiquette calls for a pipe, or in the absence of a personal briar, a cigar.