Significance of these types of clan pins.

[Jock Scot]

I have the utmost respect for your opinion and understand your point of view about mixing culture but I must disagree. Although I was born in the USA my mother was born in Scotland and my father in York. He served in the Royal Horse Artillery and then the Mounted Section of the Palestine Police from 1932 to 1949, leaving as Assistant Supt of Police in Jerusalem (equiv. to a colonel I believe).

The problem is that we don't wear the kilt as a costume attempting to be Scottish. The kilt, as has been illustrated in thousands of posts on this website, is a "living" garment and can (and in my opinion should) be adapted for use in any culture that those of us of Scots ancestry are found. To say that if we wear the kilt we must wear it according to the custom only of Scotland or the U.K. is, with all due respect, impossible. If a person earns their military credentials here in the USA he/she is perfectly proper in following our customs when wearing the kilt, I can discern no reason why they would be forced to wear them according to only British custom. The codes state that they can be worn with "proper" attire. In my humble opinion nothing could be more proper than the kilt.

Alright we are both speaking with the utmost of respect, that is good and I am glad.

It is the mixing of the two cultures that I have a problem with. The Scots kilted one and the US ex-serviceman wearing his decorations one. No one is attempting to force anyone to do anything. What I am suggesting is by wearing a Clan tartan kilt showing an interest and connection(by implication at least) to Scotland and of course wearing your countries decorations connects you to your homeland. All I am suggesting is that the two cultures do not happily mix. Take either in isolation and it works, put them together and I am not so sure.

Now wearing a USMC tartan kilt, for example, does add another dimension to the discussion and in truth, I have not really come up with satisfactory thoughts about that, but at least by wearing a Unit tartan does take a large chunk of "playing at being a Scot" thing away from the discussion.

[ctbuchanan]

Jock - I would offer this thought then - you live in the mother country where the kilt was born and perfected. In Scotland people should clearly wear it within the societal boundaries you are accustomed to. :aside: Although where exactly the tartan army fits in with that thought I do not know.

Even in other commonwealth countries such as Australia and Canada I observe a much more traditional approach to the wearing of the kilt. Quite honestly my Scottish cousins think us quite strange the way we carry on at American Highland Games as a tradition almost unrecognizable to them. They had never heard of a "clan village" until they came here to visit.

In the USA, I believe, it is perceived differently. We are very accustomed to taking parts of our heritage and family culture and adapting it to the polyglot melting pot that is our country. When I see kilts with cowboy boots I don't cringe. When I see a kilt with black army boots and spiked hair I might blink, but who am I to judge? When I see a kilt with a tshirt and the black rampant lion of the Clan Buchanan, I'm usually looking at myself in the mirror.

Here in the USA we are nothing else but a mixing of cultures and perhaps we are more accepting of the many ways the kilt has been changed and utilized here. But we are also very appreciative of those that adhere to the more traditional approach as a proud reflection of our heritage. We clearly can see it easily both ways.

[Nick the DSM]

Random question but it would be relevant. Would Canadian veterns of their highland regiments fall under as part of the USA or Scottish customs of wearing the medals with the kilt? Surely, they have their own rules but do others see it as a bad mix as well when they go about at highland games and such?

[Dale Seago]

I have attended hundreds of games from California to Florida and of course my home in New England. There are very few who wear any military ribbons or medals that I can recall with civilian attire. Insignia of various branches of the military and rank (i.e. sergeants stripes etc.) are more common as a cap badge or kilt pin - all in very good taste.

I do remember seeing one guy at a California event. . .Grizzled, buzz-cut grey hair, lean build with skin like leather; USMC tartan kilt with EGA plate on his kilt belt; gold-accented miniature Ka-bar as a sgian dubh; black shoes so polished they'd blind you in the sunlight; khaki shirt with a chestful of ribbons, and with rank insignia on the sleeves: E-9/Master Gunnery Sergeant.

Inasmuch as he looked like he could still take out pretty much anyone else at the entire event and might even enjoy proving it, I was not about to tell him that he looked anything short of magnificent.

My dad would never wear a kilt, or military rank insignia; but that's not to say he wouldn't visually announce his military background. Here he is, a week ago at the Rocky Mountain Highland Games:

[ctbuchanan]

What a great photo of another member of the greatest generation.

[OC Richard]

I am not at all convinced that Scots kilt culture and American military(in a civilian context)culture are mixing well. To me if you are wearing the kilt(tartan) then Scots traditions should prevail.
...In my view, leave the medal ribbons and other military badges at home when wearing the kilt as a civilian...

I think my "eye" has been struck by a similar thing, Jock. At our local Games many American wear an incongruous mix of Scottish civilian and US military attire.

Specifically, they wear US military khaki shirts complete with sleeve patches, epaulette pins, collar pins, ribbon bars, and so forth, exactly as they would while serving in uniform, but these shirts are combined with civilian kilts, sporrans, hose, and headdress.

Thinking about why it strikes my eye as odd, I suppose it stems from two factors

1) the mixing of civilian and military attire in general can look odd, even if the two are from the same nationality: would these same men wear their completely badged uniform shirt with Hawai'ian patterned shorts, flip-flops, and top it all off with a fedora? Perhaps they would; but that too would strike my eye as strange-looking.

2) for the last 40 years or so I've seen many thousands of examples of the kilt worn as a British military garment and my eye has got quite used to the sorts of shirts, kilts, sporrans, hose, headdress, etc which co-ordinate together to create the image of the Scottish soldier. Now, if a person were to be dressed like a Scottish soldier but wearing a Pickelhaube it would strike just about anyone as strange.
It strikes my eye equally strange to see a fully badged US military shirt worn with the kilt, especially the shirts with the sewn-in ribs which delineate the traditional pressing locations, because the shirts worn customarily with the kilt in the British military are nothing like that:



It might not be clear from this small photo, but these shirts are worn in the Army with no badges or pins patches of any sort whatsover. No epaulette pins, no collar badges, no sleeve patches, no medal ribbons, nothing.

His badge of rank is worn on the wristband. Corporals and Sergeants wear theirs on armbands: they are not sewn onto the shirt.

The shirt itself lacks the sewn-in ribs that US military, police, fire, and EMT shirts have.

Now, people who have served in the US military have earned all those pins and patches and badges and they can proudly wear them whenever and wherever they please and it's none of my business. But I can't help it if it looks strange to my eye to see a fully badged US military shirt worn with Hawai'ian shorts, Lederhosen, or a Scottish kilt (especially a blatantly civilian one).

[Gael Ridire]

I've seen this cap badge before and it belonged to an armiger named Bullman. Usually an armiger's badge is on a plain circlet. But this one is different and is on a ribbon. The image in the center is a Highland cow bull head, and the feather is just noting that he is a Scottish armiger. If I could figure how to upload a photo I'd post what my cap badge looks like, it is also different.

[Downunder Kilt]

I think it really is a cultural thing. In relation to wearing medals, military attainment badges etc with day wear, I have observed that the British, Australian, New Zealanders only tend to wear such items on significant days. eg. Anzac Day, Armistice Day or at a funeral for a a chum they served with, or Armed Forces get togethers. I have never seen any worn by civilians at Highland games.

About the most military bling one sees at Australian Highland Games on civilians is a regimental tie or a Returned Services Badge worn on the lapel (usually the gentlemen wearing a RSL badge, wear one 7 days a week)

In my view Americans display their patriotism in a much more open way than those in other countries. One only has to look at the number of houses that fly the flag outside them. It seems that on most news coverage of celebration events there is some sort of military type involvement with persons wearing medals, defence force insignia, old uniforms.

Yes I put it down to cultural differences

[bigdad1]

Well said ctbuchanan.

[Gael Ridire]

This is a most interesting topic. I'm a Vietnam vet and spent several decades ashamed of this fact. My 5 years of military service was one of a hanging head and American society at that time supported it participated in it.

In 1982 I was in Tokyo and one night on the Ginza (main shopping area) witnessed a Japanese man & wife in traditional Japanese dress. During the day this man wore a three piece pin-stripped suit and carried a briefcase. It occurred to me that he was reaching back into the past and taking that which he saw as good, combined it with the present things that were good in hopes that it would continue in the future.

When I took to wearing the kilt and attending Highland games I witnessed many vets wearing their military awards. I liked this. Suddenly I had a reason to be proud of my military service. I wasn't ashamed nor did it look strange. From my reading the ancient Highlander like looking as a "strutin' peacock."To me it was an evolving of the Scottish tradition by the descendants who have gone abroad. I wore my military awards when a member of SAMS, and still would at an evening formal event. But not being an active member of SAMS anymore I wouldn't wear them except to a formal event. I wear them to a black tie event now sans kilt.

Yes, it is a combining of cultures, of traditions, it is Scottish traditions & culture adapting & evolving! Now what makes me upset is those (and I've caught them) who wear military awards that they are not entitled to. They are frauds, cheats, to those who legitimately earned them, kilt or no kilt.