Sett Size

[Slowburn]

*** what Paul said. The threadcount of the tartan is not hard and fast. It is meant to give an idea of proportions. So long as the proportions of the pattern remain visibly about the same, you can modify the thread count as needed.

To give a very, very simple example, the thread count of the Red & Black MacGregor tartan (aka Rob Roy) is often given as K=R. This means that the black threads equal the red threads. Now it doesn't matter if you weave it at K20 R20 or K40 R40 or K102 R102, visually the tartan pattern would be the same, just on different scales.

And I only thought that the fabric weight was what determined the sett size i.e. the heavier the cloth the larger the sett. I suppose my preference would be for a larger sett to better show the pattern so a larger sett for a complex pattern and smaller for a more simple pattern. I do like the large sett on the example that started the thread.

[CameronCat]

I'm wondering if this isn't more of an artistic decision than a scientific/ historic/ mathematical one. Perhaps personal preference is the controlling factor. As seen above, some generally prefer large setts and others, the smaller one.

Each of us have our own ideas about 1) what we think looks good overall and 2) what we think we look good in.

For instance, speaking only for me'self, in the picture at the top I prefer the larger sett for the MacDonald of the Isles, but if I were called on to specify the tartan worn by the gent on the extreme right, I'd like the sett smaller. Why? No idea...just the way I see it.

[Pleater]

Just to throw in another way in which set size can alter how a kilt looks, this time in the pleats.

I bought a length of tartan advertised as Black Watch, but it turned out to be Semple, and the pattern is very rectangular - but I decide to go ahead and make a kilt from it anyway.

I usually pleat to the stripe, but using every stripe, either the white or the red, meant that there were too many rather small pleats, and every other stripe gave too few but deep pleats.

The option which gives a good number of decent sized pleats is to have the pleats alternate white and red stripes - which means I don't have to chose one over the other and the effect is rather pleasing, I think.

I have only got it pinned together at the moment, but as the cold weather is fast becoming the norm I will be sewing it in the near future so you can see the result.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[kilted_brewer]

The option which gives a good number of decent sized pleats is to have the pleats alternate white and red stripes - which means I don't have to chose one over the other and the effect is rather pleasing, I think.

I have only got it pinned together at the moment, but as the cold weather is fast becoming the norm I will be sewing it in the near future so you can see the result.

Sounds great! Please share pictures at any stage!

[Paul Henry]

...snip....
I usually pleat to the stripe, but using every stripe, either the white or the red, meant that there were too many rather small pleats, and every other stripe gave too few but deep pleats.

The option which gives a good number of decent sized pleats is to have the pleats alternate white and red stripes - which means I don't have to chose one over the other and the effect is rather pleasing, I think.....snip...

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

I finished a kilt recently that has a large sett , Smith, with a red and yellow alternate lines over a standard blue/black/green repeating unit.
I choose to pleat to alternate red and yellow line, I suspect similar to Anne's idea,the pleat depth is reasonable, and not so big, and ends with with an interesting arrangement I feel

[OC Richard]

Yes I too was struck by the difference in sett sizes above.

So many of my opinions about what looks "right" in Highland Dress come from nearly 40 years of looking at, owning, and wearing the Highland Dress as it's worn in the Army.

From the later 19th century up till today the Army tends to use quite large sett sizes, and that's what I'm used to, in mens kilts.

The tartan industry seems to go along, in the main, as they tend to use larger sett sizes for the heavyweight tartan intended for mens kilts.

Here's an example of the drastic difference it can make in the appearance of a kilt: two kilts in MacKenzie tartan...





Those are extremes; most mens kilts you'll see will fall somewhere between.

In thinking of sett size, it's very interesting, in The Highlanders of Scotland, to see sett sizes all over the map. Witness the drastically different sett sizes of these two MacDonald kilts:



I don't think I've ever seen a kilt in the ordinary Clan Donald tartan with a sett that large.

On the other hand, that red MacDonald tartan is usually seen with a much larger sett size, for mens kilts, nowadays.

Here they are, worn by The Isle of Skye Pipe Band:



Of course this tartan can readily be traced to the source, as it was copied from this painting. Note the rather large sett size in the original:

[RAF]

Although I was somewhat familiar with varying sett sizes, it never occurred to me that it could be something I could specify when ordering a kilt from someone using "existing" material. I favor what seems to be the norm when it comes to using smaller setts for tartan accessories (ties, caps, etc.) and I think I would like a waistcoat in a smaller sett complimenting a larger sett kilt. I do like the idea of having an option as there are other factors to consider like the individual's body type and size, as well as overall general scale of and colors in the tartan. A small or "average" size man might benefit more from a standard or smaller sett, thinking that a particularly large sett would overwhelm the mans frame. Whereas a small sett on a very large man might look fussy or busy, and a larger sett would be more to scale with his body type. It kind of goes back to the standard gentlemen's haberdashery guidelines - choosing clothing that suits your frame. A short or stout man does not benefit from a double breasted jacket with a high button stance, but on a tall and/or thin man, this jacket style looks good. A more accurate analogy, since we are discussing pattern (tartan) would be high contrast color and/or horizontal lines - not great for shorter/smaller men, but can work very well for the tall guy. Typically, tonal color palette, solids, or vertical lines work best for the small frame. Selecting your sett size would certainly bring new meaning to the bespoke kilt. Thanks Matt for bringing this to mind!

[zazenkilter]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then aa 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

[zazenkilter]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then a 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

[davidlpope]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then a 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

I think you're actually quite wrong about this. With a post count of 4 it might be wise to peruse past threads on the site and recognize the collected knowledge that is here. No one really likes a new know-it-all who hasn't established their bona fides yet. Oh yeah...welcome to XMarks.