Sett Size

[Paul Henry]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then a 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

Yet again Gary you are posting misinformation, I am copying my post on the other thread , for your information and to alert others to you mistaken belief.

Gary , I afraid you are quite wrong with this, it is indeed very common for weavers to increase proportionally a thread count, and as David has said even sometime they can slightly alter the number of threads in a block of colour. It is exactly this that sometimes causes problems in identification of names ( as in a current thread by Barb).
But the bottom line is that a thread count IS a formula that can be increased to make extra large setts if required and still be called by the same name , and it does not affect the name ot any of the registration details.

And as David said please have a browse through the pages here before making blanket statements, I know you have been a tartan designer and kiltmaker, but we would still love to hear more about you, and of pictures of your kilts as well.

[Graham A. Robieson]

Greetings,

I would like to put this in...There is no such thing as a 'SHY' tartan, for me big setts follow the direction of easier identification...small setts are decoration, big setts are motivation.


All the best,


Graham

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then aa 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

This is not correct at all. The thread count of a tartan is there primarily to give you an idea of proportion, not to formally dictate the exact number of threads used. What defines the tartan is a combination of the pattern and colors, and if you change all the numbers in the thread count proportionally, the pattern (and therefore the tartan) remain the same.

This can be easily demonstrated by looking at how the thread count for one of the simplest tartans is typically rendered. The black and red "Rob Roy" MacGregor tartan is often written thus:
K=R

This means that the number of black threads is the same as the number of red threads, giving you the simple "check" design of the Rob Roy tartan. If you weave it with 8 threads per color, or 20 threads per color, or 32 threads per color, it would still be the Rob Roy tartan.

In fact, here are images of three different versions of the Rob Roy tartan found in a pattern book from the first half of the 1800s. All three are from the same pattern book, same weavers, same weight and quality cloth. All that is different is the proportion of the thread count. The tartan is the same.

[davidg]

What defines the tartan is a combination of the pattern and colors, and if you change all the numbers in the thread count proportionally, the pattern (and therefore the tartan) remain the same.

I've never understood why anyone has any trouble with this concept. In a recipe 4 ounces of fat and 8 ounces of flour is seen to be proportional. In other words, you want more pastry and you size the recipe up! The thread count works the same way but some simply do not see it. 4 parts (threads) red to 8 parts green is the same as 8 parts red to 16 parts green. Perhaps we should have called it the THREADS (plural) count

[zazenkilter]

Yes, do read David again, he said that some times when the thread count is changed to much IT IS HARD TO ID THE TARTAN.......
That was my point. when you change the thread count, you run the risk of change to the tartan as it was designed, and have in fact plagerised the tartan and make something that it not... a number of your mates have read what they please and not what was asked.
The question was not how do you redesign the sett, it was how to make it smaller, the wt of the thread used will do that with out changing the sett GO UP

[Paul Henry]

Yes, do read David again, he said that some times when the thread count is changed to much IT IS HARD TO ID THE TARTAN.......
That was my point. when you change the thread count, you run the risk of change to the tartan as it was designed, and have in fact plagerised the tartan and make something that it not... a number of your mates have read what they please and not what was asked.
The question was not how do you redesign the sett, it was how to make it smaller, the wt of the thread used will do that with out changing the sett GO UP

Gary, the post that you made was completely incorrect and misleading,

you said :Originally Posted by zazenkilter View Post
Sett size gives the formula that is made of thread count and colours used to make a tartan. once the formula is sett and registered, IT CAN NOT BE CHANGED and be what it was named as, to change the formula or sett, you will make a completely new tartan. the only way the set is changed is the ounce of the thread used to make the tartan. a 10 oz is smaller, therefore the tartan sett size is smaller then aa 22 oz thread and so on...there is NO OTHER WAY TO change the sett size for a given named tartan. hope this helps you. You can always create a new tartan based on an original tartan, by change in the number of threads per colour and repeat the pattern, but if it is to close to the original tartan the Registry of Tartan, may not pass if for registration.

It is that point which several of us have had an issue with, the threadcount is not a product of the size of thread used, it is independant of anythickness of thread, whether fine silk or heavy rope, as long as the count is followed, the "tartan" name remains the same and as registered, and whether or not the numbers or doubled ( or tripled or anythign greater) as long as the ratio is followed everything is still good

[zazenkilter]

I agree with you , the sett size is made up of the thread count, along with the colours of each thead in the sett. The sett is what you register with the Scottish Registery of Tartan. along with why you used the colours you did... Cheers

[FatherWilliam57]

I agree with you , the sett size is made up of the thread count, along with the colours of each thead in the sett. The sett is what you register with the Scottish Registery of Tartan. along with why you used the colours you did... Cheers

Is it a requirement when registering a tartan to state why certain colors were used? Or is this just optional information that may be given when submitting a registration?

[figheadair]

Is it a requirement when registering a tartan to state why certain colors were used? Or is this just optional information that may be given when submitting a registration?

Optional.

[zazenkilter]

I have gone into the registration form and under the section Background, Rationale and History of the tartan it askes for: "Tartans ar created for many reasons, usually to celebrate an individual or family's Scottish heritage or connections, and the colours used are often of particular significance. Please provide as much information as possible about your tartan:
. Why has it been created?
.How do ou intend to use the tartan?
.Why have you chosen these colours?
.If you have used online tartan design software to create your design, please include detail of which site you have used.
.Please include the name and contact details of who should be approached should someone wish to so seep permission to use or weave this tartan. This name and contact details will not be published on the Register unless you specifically ask for it to be made availiable.
The information provided here willbe used to support the proposed name and category to your tartan, and edited to provide the rationale published on your tartan's web-page once it has been included on the Register."

Here is the address for the Register, you may contact them as to it being an option.
The Administrator
Scottish Register of Tartans
The National Records of Scotland
HM General Register House
2 Princes Street
Edinburgh EH13YY

Each of my tartans that I have put through the Register, I left this information out, as it was so large, and I created a web site addy that gave all thes details. I hope this helps you. You can also go the the Scottish Registery of Tartans Web site, open an account and go to the registry section for a new tartan. The form is there, with all the information you need to register a new tartan step my step. All the 'why's" you need to and more information is there. But like I said, them an e-mail, they are more then helpful with a fast reply.
Cheers Gary