Scotland's Shame

[Peter Crowe]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

I don't know what sources you are getting your information from but as a native born and bred Scot and a person of faith, I can assure you there is no government policy (by either the UK or the devolved Scottish governments) to 'stamp out religion'. I suggest you check the following:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Ju...-violence/bill

[Jock Scot]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

Just to put the record straight.

I am not a religious person, so I have no axe to grind, but I can assure you that the UK Government, or mainstream political party, is not trying to stamp out religion in the UK. Sectarianism most certainly they are, any sensible person would support that -------religion most certainly they are not, really they are not and any attempt for the Government to think of doing so, let alone try to do so, would be political suicide.

Good gracious what sort of country do you think the UK is? Perfect we are not, but I am appalled that any one should even think that a UK Government would be heading along those lines.

[cormacmacguardhe]

My grandmother was born in Renfrew in 1876, she lived in Belfast from age 10 to age 21. She made quite a big deal out of the fact that her grandparents were burned because they were Covenanters. She told of the difficulties encountered in Belfast due to being Protestant. She actively was almost what you would call rabid in her disdain for those of the Catholic faith. One would hope that as the world evolves these kind of sectarian hatreds would eventually die out.

[English Bloke]

... It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, ...

Sorry bdkilted ... Absolute nonsense!!

Sectarianism, as with any other -ism is a despicable scourge. Established British Governments (to date) advocate freedoms thankfully and the law here will not tolerate intolerance. I am proud and privilaged to live in one of the most tolerant nations in the world. It's the looney fringe who would take those freedoms from us. The kind of looney fringe that put together spurious articles on the internet. Don't be swayed by their evil and self serving propaganda!

[English Bloke]

My grandmother was born in Renfrew in 1876, ... her grandparents were burned because they were Covenanters. ... She actively was ... rabid in her disdain for those of the Catholic faith. One would hope that as the world evolves these kind of sectarian hatreds would eventually die out.

I don't wish to sound flippant with regard to your Grandmothers awful experience but rest assured, those who would advocate violence based on any prejudice, are outwith the law in 21st Century Britain... and have been for some time.

[O'Callaghan]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

I think the percentage who actually show up at church on Sunday is 4% in England and 40% in America, although I don't know where I found that statistic. According to that, England ought to be a much more violent society, but it clearly isn't. Also, as an atheist I must presumably be some sort of homicidal maniac, but it's hard to know whether to be offended or to just laugh at you. Please also explain why so few atheists are incarcerated in prisons?

[Chas]

I can almost hear the clang as this thread slams shut. So before it disappears a quick post to boost the post count is in order.

Regards

Chas

[Peter Crowe]

I can almost hear the clang as this thread slams shut. So before it disappears a quick post to boost the post count is in order.

Regards

Chas

Chas, unfortunately it is a topic that invites highly partisan agendas. I tried along with many others to keep it within the rules with a view to enlightening people who had previously heard little on the subject and were curious.

To be honest I expected it to head south before this, and it is a testimony to this group of contributors that it by and large generated more light than heat.

Like you, I am concerned it is now beginning to move in a southerly direction.

[tpa]

Personally, as a Scot, I've always thought the best thing about football was that it kept a lot of people off the streets on a Saturday afternoon.

The sort of people who cause problems will always find an excuse for violence be it religious, colour based or just booze. I feel sorry for the police, they are on a hiding to nothing and it is inevitable they will get it wrong now and again, that is just human.

[Peter Crowe]

Personally, as a Scot, I've always thought the best thing about football was that it kept a lot of people off the streets on a Saturday afternoon.

The sort of people who cause problems will always find an excuse for violence be it religious, colour based or just booze. I feel sorry for the police, they are on a hiding to nothing and it is inevitable they will get it wrong now and again, that is just human.

I think you are right about the element who cause trouble at football matches. Since the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980 when alcohol was banned, there has been little actual trouble at Old Firm games themselves, although the prevailing atmosphere with the noise is vitriolic and quite primal. It is in the hours following the match that the police see a massive rise in criminal, violent, and anti-social behaviour, including a massive increase in domestic abuse. I have to say that despite the papal scarf incident referred to by Jimmy, Strathclyde Police do a first rate job at preventing serious disorder and lawlessness on the streets of Glasgow and it's surrounding hinterland.