TV version of Braveheart?

[macwilkin]

Sorry, just re-read your comment. What meaning are you trying to get from Bruce's last wish?

That his guilt proves that he betrayed Wallace? I can't see how you are jumping to that conclusion.
Do you have any links to evidence that this did happen?

I am aware that Bruce did take different sides at times for his political gain, but as far as I'm aware, there is no evidence that he fought for the English at the Battle of Falkirk. Again, do you have evidence that he did?

From my own knowledge, I thought that the film portrayed Bruce wrongly in such a bad light. I take your opinion that he was guilty about his past, so must have done wrong, but I still cant agree with the image they gave him in the movie.

Of course, I'm more than happy to read any links you want to post, that prove he was as much of a villain as the film made him, that he did betray Wallace and that he fought for the English at Falkirk.
Until I at least see some evidence of this, then I'm sorry but I can't in any way agree with your views.

Well, there was that whole "committing murder in a church" thing with the Red Comyn, who was not the evil traitor that the pro-Bruce camp made him out to be. Again, see Robert the Bruce's Rivals for a good academic examination of this aspect.

Bruce may not have been at Falkirk, but he wasn't at Roslin either, and John Comyn was.

T.

[creagdhubh]

I can't see why the council didn't replaced it with something better, seeing the opinion of it in the local community.
Apparently it was very popular with tourists, so money talks I guess.

I think you 'hit the nail on the head!'

Cheers,

[auld argonian]

Yeah, right...they can get Donald Trump to come in and tell people that they're fired and then they can disembowel them and throw them off a cliff....

If it happens, it'll be TV so moderate your expectations and lower your standards. Wasn't there a Robin Hood series recently where they had to re-invent the whole thing so as to make it palatable for the video game generation? They're not concerned about whether those of us who care about historic accuracy are going to watch it...we are not the demographic that they want to capture.

Best

AA

[creagdhubh]

Well, there was that whole "committing murder in a church" thing with the Red Comyn, who was not the evil traitor that the pro-Bruce camp made him out to be. Again, see Robert the Bruce's Rivals for a good academic examination of this aspect.

Bruce may not have been at Falkirk, but he wasn't at Roslin either, and John Comyn was.

T.

I knew you were going to bring that incident up, Todd!!! And as a Comyn (Cumming) yourself, rightly so! Hahaha!

Cheers my friend,

[Ryan Ross]

I think Ryan Ross was saying that Bruce was just as he was portrayed in the Braveheart film, as a coward who betrayed Wallace.

By God, you are gravely mistaken, sir!

But you're also largely ignorant to the Bruce's real-life shortcomings, it would seem; I know more than a thing or two about how the Powers that Be like to teach history, during secondary school. I imagine that the Bruce was painted in his usual "Savior of Scotland" role, when you were in class? Yes?

And no, I know good and well that the Bruce never betrayed Wallace to the English, and I have no idea where you got and became obsessed with the idea that I thik that. In fact, I think they caught Wallace while he was in bed with a random woman, and I'm certain the Bruce would have known nothing about those shenanigans!

As for proof, I don't want to bother educating you... though cajunscot's post should have you well on the way. If you want to learn about your country's history, you can well do it on your own mental dime, an not on an American's. I don't need to prove a thing.

I'm much more a fan of the Bruce, than I am of Wallace. The Bruce was one of the top ranked knights in Christendom, and though he may not have been perfect, most accounts of his martial actions would indicate that he's anything but a coward... it takes b@lls to stab your enemy to death in a church, wouldn't you say?

And an excelent observation by Seago Sensei- Sir Douglas was fighting the Saracens with King Alfonso, with the silver casket around his neck. He threw it into the battle, then fought his way back to it, I hear. Even died huddling on top of it, from what some say, all cut to pieces.

[macwilkin]

I'm much more a fan of the Bruce, than I am of Wallace. The Bruce was one of the top ranked knights in Christendom, and though he may not have been perfect, most accounts of his martial actions would indicate that he's anything but a coward... it takes b@lls to stab your enemy to death in a church, wouldn't you say?

Bruce wounded him, but his cronies Lindsey and Kirkpatrick finished the deed ("I'll mak siccar!"). I would say it was less b@lls and more anger and haste that caused Bruce to attack Comyn.

I've always wondered what Bruce & the Comyn could have achieved had they put their differences aside and worked together, but it was not to be.

T.

[Ryan Ross]

Bruce wounded him, but his cronies Lindsey and Kirkpatrick finished the deed ("I'll mak siccar!"). I would say it was less b@lls and more anger and haste that caused Bruce to attack Comyn.

We know what you think, Bruce detractor!

Haha... seriously though, from a martial arts standpoint, we know that an intrusion as little as three inches deep, into either the abdominal or chest cavity, is likely to result in eventual death, unless the treatment is immediate and very good. I'm inclined to think that Bruce's buddies simply saved Red from a bad death.

I've always wondered what Bruce & the Comyn could have achieved had they put their differences aside and worked together, but it was not to be.

Now that's an excelent question, my friend!


...and if Jan Smuts had been around back then, the three of them probably could have overtaken the world, if they had a mind to.

[macwilkin]

We know what you think, Bruce detractor!

Haha... seriously though, from a martial arts standpoint, we know that an intrusion as little as three inches deep, into either the abdominal or chest cavity, is likely to result in eventual death, unless the treatment is immediate and very good. I'm inclined to think that Bruce's buddies simply saved Red from a bad death.

How very generous of them, Ryan.

Now that's an excelent question, my friend!


...and if Jan Smuts had been around back then, the three of them probably could have overtaken the world, if they had a mind to.

We really need to start a "Kilted Supporters of Jan Smuts" group here! Instead of schiltrons, the Bruce would have formed his own Commando unit!

T.

[Jack Daw]

For a Hollywood movie on a Scottish historical theme, I think Rob Roy was very good. I understand that there is a requirement for some artistic license in making such a movie, but the producers of Rob Roy IMHO used such license in a manner that was faithful to the period and the historical characters involved (early 18th century).

I agree, although Rob Roy's physical description was different than Liam Neeson's. I have both movies on dvd or Blu-ray and watch RR 2 o2 3 times a year while I will only watch Braveheart if a lady friend insists.

[Ryan Ross]

How very generous of them, Ryan.

I hear they were pretty nice guys.

We really need to start a "Kilted Supporters of Jan Smuts" group here! Instead of schiltrons, the Bruce would have formed his own Commando unit!

T.

Bwahahaha... Now we're talking!

Man, that would have been awesome... hit and run, harrass the foe at the rear, and all the rest. Actually, come to think of it, things might have actually started to look somewhat more like in the movie Braveheart. Save that Smuts would have undoubtedly ensured that Scottish independance was forthcoming sooner, and he would have later helped to establish an org that peacefully united the western European nations, resulting in an earlier onset of the IR.

If Jan Smuts had been operating in 13th century Scotland, we'd probably be living on Mars, by now.