Too Traditional?

[davidlpope]

A couple points:

1. Wearing formal attire to a non-formal event is not being "too-traditional", it's being ill-informed.
2. In my mind "historical attire" is not the same as "traditional attire". In other words, I consider a box-pleated kilt or a kingussie-pleated kilt historical but not "truly traditional". That being said, it's usually the accoutrements that one wears with a kilt that scream "traditional", "modern", or "clueless". Several of my friends have kingussie-pleated kilts and most folks they encounter never even notice the unique pleating style. They're great kilts, though, and I find them more comfortable due to the less fabric used in their construction.
3. Clothing should be adapted to the environment you're in. So, when it's a cool morning at Stone Mt., a tweed jacket and waistcoat feels nice. In 90 degree heat at Linville, I lose the jacket and tie and roll my shirt sleeves up.
4. American clothing, generally, has grown less formal and less traditional. By way of example, although t-shirts are generally worn now as outer garments, there are still some who hold to the traditional notion that they are underclothing and not suitable in public.


My personal preference is to try and wear the kilt the way that it is worn in its native environment, the Highlands of Scotland.

Here in the US that may clash with how it is typically worn. In many cases I think this clash is the result of misinformed and novice kiltwearers who base their notion of "what looks right" on highland outfitter brochures/websites and the examples they see at their local Highland Games.

When I show up at an evening event with bar buckle brogues, Argyle hose, and my Angora or full-mask badger sporran, I look different than those who surround me. I have a velvet doublet and bias-cut waistcoat on order, so when those arrive I will stick out like a sore thumb.

This was precisely the case at last year's Grandfather Mt. Patron's Reception. Almost everyone else was attired in ghillie brogues, white hose, fly plaids, rabbit fur sporrans, "historical-inspired" garments that looked like pirate vests, etc. Everyone, that is, except the Command Sergeant Major from the Black Watch (and a few commendable others) who was wearing bar buckle brogues, diced hose, and a hair sporran.

In my mind it's an issue of in-group/out-group behavior, being "in the know", if you will. It's not unique to kilted attire, I find the same phenomenon at work when I quail hunt. From time to time one of the guys that I normally hunt with will bring a guest. This normally means that the guest shows up in what they imagine to be "bird-hunting clothing", although it's not what the rest of us are wearing (which is normally more beat-up, non-descript, and basic). See this thread for a more thorough discussion:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...70#post1028170


I guess I'm okay with looking out of place or "too-traditional", if that's what most people think...

[MacMillans son]

I'm going to expose a guinea pig here, but which of these is completely traditional in CA MacMillan's son?

Thanks ThistleDown, I was considering, what I assume is your point, while I was typing my original post. That is, as in America, there is a wide band of personal preference and style in wearing traditional clothes. As the photo you provided evidenced, although a certain style may be more acceptable to Highland eyes, there is no set rule about patterns, colors, accessories, that is considered traditional and another, within reason, that is considered non-traditional.

But in answer to your question, none of those would be completely traditional to CA as we have no tradition of the kilt, however, and in line with my point, save for the balmoral and the cromach, the gentleman on the far right may seem to be more in line with the more common practice here of colors and patterns being more subtly toned and, dare I say, "matched". Therefore, perceived as less costumey and more "well dressed man in a kilt"

I see my error in equating what is more acceptable there, relative to patterns, colors etc., to what is more traditional. Damn you Guinea Pig hunters !

ThistleDown, since day one you have been a gentle hand in my education, and I truly appreciate your help.

Best regards,

Brooke

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

David, well put as always.

[creagdhubh]

A couple points:

1. Wearing formal attire to a non-formal event is not being "too-traditional", it's being ill-informed.
2. In my mind "historical attire" is not the same as "traditional attire". In other words, I consider a box-pleated kilt or a kingussie-pleated kilt historical but not "truly traditional". That being said, it's usually the accoutrements that one wears with a kilt that scream "traditional", "modern", or "clueless". Several of my friends have kingussie-pleated kilts and most folks they encounter never even notice the unique pleating style. They're great kilts, though, and I find them more comfortable due to the less fabric used in their construction.
3. Clothing should be adapted to the environment you're in. So, when it's a cool morning at Stone Mt., a tweed jacket and waistcoat feels nice. In 90 degree heat at Linville, I lose the jacket and tie and roll my shirt sleeves up.
4. American clothing, generally, has grown less formal and less traditional. By way of example, although t-shirts are generally worn now as outer garments, there are still some who hold to the traditional notion that they are underclothing and not suitable in public.


My personal preference is to try and wear the kilt the way that it is worn in its native environment, the Highlands of Scotland.

Here in the US that may clash with how it is typically worn. In many cases I think this clash is the result of misinformed and novice kiltwearers who base their notion of "what looks right" on highland outfitter brochures/websites and the examples they see at their local Highland Games.

When I show up at an evening event with bar buckle brogues, Argyle hose, and my Angora or full-mask badger sporran, I look different than those who surround me. I have a velvet doublet and bias-cut waistcoat on order, so when those arrive I will stick out like a sore thumb.

This was precisely the case at last year's Grandfather Mt. Patron's Reception. Almost everyone else was attired in ghillie brogues, white hose, fly plaids, rabbit fur sporrans, "historical-inspired" garments that looked like pirate vests, etc. Everyone, that is, except the Command Sergeant Major from the Black Watch (and a few commendable others) who was wearing bar buckle brogues, diced hose, and a hair sporran.

In my mind it's an issue of in-group/out-group behavior, being "in the know", if you will. It's not unique to kilted attire, I find the same phenomenon at work when I quail hunt. From time to time one of the guys that I normally hunt with will bring a guest. This normally means that the guest shows up in what they imagine to be "bird-hunting clothing", although it's not what the rest of us are wearing (which is normally more beat-up, non-descript, and basic). See this thread for a more thorough discussion:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...70#post1028170


I guess I'm okay with looking out of place or "too-traditional", if that's what most people think...

***

Lachlan Mackintosh and I have a lively chat at his house in Newtonmore, Inverness-shire, Scotland. Two examples of traditional Highland dress for a specific occassion; an informal luncheon just prior to the annual Clan Macpherson march, where the men of the clan, lead by our Chief, march to the Newtonmore Highland Games field and are welcomed by the Chieftain of the games.

[creagdhubh]

Great photo featuring some of the Chiefs (to include my own, Sir William Alan Macpherson of Cluny and Blairgowrie, TD) of prominent clans that make up the great Clan Chattan Confederation. This particular photo was taken during their procession through Inverness during the re-signing of the Bond of Union festivities in 2009 - celebrating the Bond's 400th anniversary,

Rex, I know you were present at that glorious time, as I have seen many of the photos on the Clan Chattan website - I wish I could have been there!

Slainte mhath,

[ForresterModern]

I think as Brooke and others have said the propriety of dress is related to context and situation. I look at worrying about being too traditional as being something to not worry about, especially if you are not TRYING too hard to be traditional in appearence. As Jock has said in many occasions, the kilt is another piece of clothing in the armoire, and has some pieces specific to wearing with it, but it is a kind of grab and go in getting dressed. As said above my Brooke and others we here in America seem to impress our "fashion" sense and style on that "traditional" scottish approach, namely matchy matchy or complementary colors, what hose go with that kilt, what tie goes with that jacket, etc... The less you try the more traditional you get to lookign without really looking too traditional. Kind of like the harder you try the worse off you are-----use the force Luke, let it flow through you. You will do fine.

[MacLowlife]

For those few us us who have not always worn a kilt, it might be good to analogize to trouser-wearing equivalents, as others have done. First, though, I'd like to echo what others have said about being overdressed. It isn't that it's too traditional, it's just too much. And sure, it is easy to fall into the trap of dressing like a picture- a picture from an outfitter's catalogue or from the web, or from some costume designer's notebook. What looks "cool" may simply be flashy- There is a highland dress equivalent of a white dinner jacket, but also of a white suit of tails. One can be appropriate under the right circumstances. The other one can, too, but only if you are a bandleader or a competitive ballroom dancer.

But back to CMcG's most interesting question. Too Traditional might simply mean out of fashion. I don't see a lot of comment on lapel widths or the like in THCD discussions, but that is what makes a 70s suit look like a 70s suit and not like a 50s suit. When something is so out of fashion as to become theatrical, well, that might be Too Traditional.

One of David L Pope's many excellent points that I particularly agree with is the idea that being right sometimes puts us in the minority. And sometimes you have to wait on the rest of the crowd to catch on, if they ever do.

Finally, this leads us to the "if you had spinach on your teeth would you want me to tell you" problem. I tell my brother and my childhood friends not to wear white hose. I would not tell my boss, if I had one, and if he wore a kilt. And I would not tell my future father in law, at least not on my first date. Wear the pleats at the back, yes. No white hose, ... naaah.

[Bugbear]

For those few us us who have not always worn a kilt,

Before it was pointed out this is the Traditional Attire forum, I thought this was the issue, and would have argued that Highland attire is not traditional in my neck of the woods. Some of what is being discussed probably does not belong here in this forum.
I do remember pushing MOR a little too far in trying to figure out if silver ornamentation was absolutely necessary on formal and black tie Highland attire, in the traditional sense. That was a long time back, though.

I'll get back to lurking in the shadows, now, MacLowlife.

[Four]

I dig the socks, tartan kilt, sporran, some kilt socks, and maybe a tweed cap (not really traditional..) that thats about it, none of the crazy shirts, hats, or shoes.

[creagdhubh]

I dig the socks, tartan kilt, sporran, some kilt socks, and maybe a tweed cap (not really traditional..) that thats about it, none of the crazy shirts, hats, or shoes.

What do you mean by 'crazy shirts, hats, or shoes?'