Goal to get a grant of COA

[Mike_Oettle]

Macmillan of Rathdown wrote: “I await the outcome with baited breath! ;-)”

Baited with cheese like a mousetrap?

[WVHighlander]

:butt::butt::butt:Michael! After all the nice things I've been saying about South Africa......:butt:

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Macmillan of Rathdown wrote: “I await the outcome with baited breath! ;-)”

Baited with cheese like a mousetrap?

Oops! Amazing what a typo can do... it should have said "bated" as in "abated", not "baited" ... oh well, it's a fair cop...

[WVHighlander]

LOL...no harm no foul!

[Gael Ridire]

Perhaps MacMillan of Rathdowne can make a comment or correction but should a "thistle double tressure" be used, my understanding was that Lyon court granted this only to families connected to the royal family, i.e. the various Chief arms that have such. The cadets do not have such or younger siblings in the Chief's family. Right or wrong? Other then this very nice WV Highlander & good luck!

[WVHighlander]

I would like to hear Scott's take as well. I know that a representative of the Lyon was against the use of a double tressure flory-counter flory due to it being associated with the royal arms of Scotland. The exact email being:

[QUOTE] With regard to your second question I think I am safe in saying that the Lord Lyon would not feel he could grant a single tressure flory counterflory and an orle with eight fleurs de lis to a private individual bearing a surname unconnected with such a distinctive charge. It would be all too easy for it to be taken as a royal tressure. He would have to give very careful thought to matriculating such Arms granted by a foreign authority.[QUOTE]

The main issue by the clerk was the use of the f.d.l in the a tressure or orle. It was actually South Africa's assistant National Herald who devised the idea of the thistle double tressure...(I am many things but artistically creative is not one of them.) Up until his suggestion I had never heard of such a thing. Steve later sent me a link where Canada had issued arms using maple leaves in a tressure, which lead to me finding other C.o.A's with use of different items in a tressure. So, I thought hey the Herald suggested it and it retains symbolism of both my personal and familial nature. (read celtic and heraldic meanings for thistles), why not?

But, as always I would love to have Scott or Chas weigh in on this one. (I am not going to change it because my wife approved the design and last I checked a Queen out ranked a Jack (herald) every day and twice on Sunday!):buttkick:

[SlackerDrummer]

Perhaps MacMillan of Rathdowne can make a comment or correction but should a "thistle double tressure" be used, my understanding was that Lyon court granted this only to families connected to the royal family, i.e. the various Chief arms that have such. The cadets do not have such or younger siblings in the Chief's family. Right or wrong? Other then this very nice WV Highlander & good luck!

You're thinking of the double tressure flory-counter-flory, as WVH has pointed out. The royal family has no claim to any other types of tressure.

[SlackerDrummer]

As an interesting side note, I am curious to see how this will be illustrated by the SABH. The main charges on the shield should be the three boars' heads as they come from the base arms of the clan chief. As such they should be the primary focus on the shield. The tressure will be what it will be, of course, but the bear is a charge intended to "difference" these arms from those of the chief and should not be treated as the primary charge. In other words, it should be smaller than the boars' heads. We often get this wrong in our modern interpretations of ancient coats of arms, particularly those of Scottish origin.

[WVHighlander]

Ken,

I should be getting the preliminary sketch/drawing in about a week or two. I will post it to give an idea. However, I've never heard that the boar's heads should be the primary focus...personally I was hoping to make the bear the primary focus because they are my arms, but we will see.

As a side note: I just did that on my rough sketch and .....it really changes the whole effect.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Perhaps MacMillan of Rathdowne can make a comment or correction but should a "thistle double tressure" be used, my understanding was that Lyon court granted this only to families connected to the royal family, i.e. the various Chief arms that have such. The cadets do not have such or younger siblings in the Chief's family. Right or wrong? Other then this very nice WV Highlander & good luck!

The double tressure flory counter flory is only granted (in Scotland, and presumably in England) with the permission of the sovereign. Those existing arms which bear the "double tressure" (Buchanan, Livingston and Murray, to name but three) are treated exactly as would be any other coat of arms, and the double tressure would normally be allowed to indeterminate cadets.

As to the use of a double tressure "thistled counter thistled", the officers of arms in the South African Bureau of Heraldry are extremely skilled heralds, and are well within their jurisdiction in granting this device; I for one would not think to question their decision.