"Balmoral" Doublet Help?

[Seawolf]

Nice find! Meal do naidheachd!

Seawolf

[MacSpadger]

I see many doublets like this worn by friends and aquaintances at balls in Scotland and at the Royal Caledonian Ball in London. You could wear this doublet whenever you wear Highland evening dress.

Yes, that's the kind of RSVP ball I was referring to. I have attended the Royal Caledonian Ball in London, but only as a piper. Other balls where I would expect to see this kind of doublet would be where society, (for want of a better phrase), was the main invitees. For the vast majority of us, my original thought remains, if you bought one, there'd be really not many occasions where you could wear it.

[MacLowlife]

Yes, that's the kind of RSVP ball I was referring to. I have attended the Royal Caledonian Ball in London, but only as a piper. Other balls where I would expect to see this kind of doublet would be where society, (for want of a better phrase), was the main invitees. For the vast majority of us, my original thought remains, if you bought one, there'd be really not many occasions where you could wear it.

MacSpadger, a friend of mine once explained a rule about tuxedoes and credit cards that probably applies to formal doublets:


If you get a credit card for emergencies only, you may find yourself experiencing more emergencies.


Similarly, once you have a tuxedo (or a formal doublet), you sometimes will discover more occasions that require you to wear it.

[Glen]

For the vast majority of us, my original thought remains, if you bought one, there'd be really not many occasions where you could wear it.

I think CMcC would have lots of occasions to wear the doublet when he gets back to TO, if he wants. It looks like the Duke wears his when others are wearing a PC.

[CMcG]

CMcG, I must congratulate you on your find. I was the other bidder on that jacket and sadly, with a 38" chest it seemed like a perfect fit for me.

I think it would look perfect worn buttoned with a belt; or unbuttoned over a low-cut waistcoat, mess dress style. A belt could be worn over the waistcoat with the latter option too. Either way, I think a jabot would look as smashing as a bow tie.

You might be able to get away with wearing a four-in-hand tie and higher-cut waistcoat with this doublet. It would probably place it in between an argyll/braemar etc and black-tie in terms of formality. The Kinloch Anderson website has photos of Sherriffmuirs being worn that way.

You got this doublet for a real steal at £14.49!! I probably wouldn't have paid more than £20 for it though, given my paltry student budget. I'd be happy to grab it off you too if it doesn't work out. Though I'd personally prefer a Balmoral made in a rich green velvet.

Sorry, JWLC! If you keep looking, I'm sure something else will turn up for you. I'm also on a student budget and eBay is the source of quite a bit of my Highland attire.

Notwithstanding Highland Clans' suggestion that this doublet could be worn less formally by opening the front, I'm still having a hard time picturing it as anything less than black tie. I think you're right that a long tie would be the way to go for a less formal look, but it might not work. I'll give it a try eventually and put the theory to the test

That doublet will look fine open or closed. You can wear a waistcoat if you like, or not...it will still look fine. Black tie, jabot, or stock would all work, and if you were from Perthshire you could even wear a white bow tie!.

Nice to know that I have some options. I'm not from Perhshire, but I do have a white bow tie...

If you want to wear it traditionally, wear it as Charlie is wearing it, buttoned up with a belt. We are discussing a garment here often associated with very high level functions, such as RSVP evening balls. It's not really designed to be worn with a waistcoat/vest. But, you have paid for it, it's up to you what you want to do with it.
There have been a couple of this kind of doublet on Ebay UK recently, they get very few bids and often go for low prices. I suspect that if you were actually Scottish and living here, if you bought one, there'd be really not many occasions where you could wear it, hence the low prices.

I see many doublets like this worn by friends and aquaintances at balls in Scotland and at the Royal Caledonian Ball in London. You could wear this doublet whenever you wear Highland evening dress.

Yes, that's the kind of RSVP ball I was referring to. I have attended the Royal Caledonian Ball in London, but only as a piper. Other balls where I would expect to see this kind of doublet would be where society, (for want of a better phrase), was the main invitees. For the vast majority of us, my original thought remains, if you bought one, there'd be really not many occasions where you could wear it.

Yes, I really can't go wrong wearing it the way Prince Charles does, eh?

The last few years running, I've had at least one, if not several formal evening events to go to each year (Burn's nights, black tie wedding receptions, etc). It seems as the years go by and my Highland wardrobe increases, that MacLowlife is proven correct and I have more occasions to get dressed up. Are you suggesting, MacSpadger, that this style of doublet would not be suitable (worn as Rothesday wears his) for such events and should be reserved for "society" balls?

My understanding of when to wear this doublet is closer to JSFMACLJR's.

[MacSpadger]

The last few years running, I've had at least one, if not several formal evening events to go to each year (Burn's nights, black tie wedding receptions, etc). It seems as the years go by and my Highland wardrobe increases, that MacLowlife is proven correct and I have more occasions to get dressed up. Are you suggesting that this style of doublet would not be suitable (worn as Rothesday wears his) for such events and should be reserved for "society" balls?

No, not at all, I'm only giving you my perspective from my own experience. I've not seen a doublet like this worn at a wedding reception or Burns supper, only at evening soirees where the accents are often more Kensington than Kirkcaldy. That's just my world, you are free to wear what you like, when you like. For the record, I've never even owned a Prince Charlie, fly plaid or such accoutrement, I've not really had occasion to wear them. I have a green tweed Argyll, a black barathea Argyll and, for when I'm feeling colourful, a petrol blue Argyll. That's done me fine for the last few decades, but your own stylistic preferences are your own sartorial choice entirely.

[CMcG]

No, not at all, I'm only giving you my perspective from my own experience. I've not seen a doublet like this worn at a wedding reception or Burns supper, only at evening soirees where the accents are often more Kensington than Kirkcaldy. That's just my world, you are free to wear what you like, when you like. For the record, I've never even owned a Prince Charlie, fly plaid or such accoutrement, I've not really had occasion to wear them. I have a green tweed Argyll, a black barathea Argyll and, for when I'm feeling colourful, a petrol blue Argyll. That's done me fine for the last few decades, but your own stylistic preferences are your own sartorial choice entirely.

I definitely appreciate you sharing your experience. That's an interesting association you have between this type of doublet and the accents of the people who might attend a function where it would be worn... my Canadian accent might throw the whole system out of balance, eh?

I also have a green tweed jacket and a black barathea one, though mine are what the retailers would call Crail and Braemar respectively. They can, and have, gotten me through most any event I would be likely to attend.

I've never worn a Prince Charlie or a fly plaid either, though I did pick up a pair of nearly new, dress (thin leather sole) ghillie brogues for a few dollars at a second hand store and my dad gave me his old horsehair sporran. I guess I'm a sucker for inexpensive, good quality Highland attire Having a doublet is indeed superfluous for me, but the price was right, and if I buy it, the opportunity to wear it will come. Maybe with those ghillie brogues dressed up with some buckles

[MacSpadger]

Buckles would most definitely go with your new jacket. You already have the full length diced hose, by the look of your pic. They are meant for full evening dress, as is your doublet. Usually buckles are worn on a "bar buckle" type shoe, like the one in the picture.

I've never seen buckles attached to Ghillie Brogues in real life, but there are vintage photos of older generation, (Victorian & Edwardian) , kilt wearers doing so. Maybe nowadays not many would notice the difference, to be honest. The Irish guards wear buckles attached to ordinary brogues via a plastic tongue that fixes under the laces.

To buy an actual pair of buckled brogues is a very expensive business. There are few makers nowadays. There are a pair on Gumtree over here at the moment for £70, which is cheap. They are exactly my size, but, like your doublet, I doubt I'd have much opportunity to wear them.

I have two pairs of shoes I wear with my kilt, an army issue pair of thick bullhide brogues that I've had for well over 20 years that will last longer than I will, and a pair of Ghillie brogues that are thin leather, but comfortable. I think they went by the brand name "The Piper". I've certainly marched quite a few miles in them without too much problems with comfort.

[Jock Scot]

Notwithstanding Highland Clans' suggestion that this doublet could be worn less formally by opening the front, I'm still having a hard time picturing it as anything less than black tie. I think you're right that a long tie would be the way to go for a less formal look, but it might not work. I'll give it a try eventually and put the theory to the test

I think we have a trans-Alantic misunderstanding here. In UK terms Highland Clans are correct. The doublet is normally for formal white tie events and in this particular case, black tie events, whilst still formal, is less so. We are talking about degrees of formality here and understanding the event and past "form" are really helpful and to the unknowing a confusing mystery to unravel and where careful enquiries are wise.We are not talking about a "one size/style fits all "situation here and there are minor conventions lurking within the major ones. One must avoid using a "sledge hammer to crack a nut" in these scenarios and a combination of knowledge, experience and good judgement are very handy.

Just so you know a business/lounge suit in the UK in any circumstance is not regarded as formal attire, so, your kilt and tweed jacket equivalent.

For formal kilt day attire(morning coat equivalent) the black barathea, silver buttoned argyll fits the bill with a traditional tie. However the same argyll will get you by with modest adjustments to one's attire to the less formal black tie, evening events.

[CMcG]

Buckles would most definitely go with your new jacket. You already have the full length diced hose, by the look of your pic. They are meant for full evening dress, as is your doublet. Usually buckles are worn on a "bar buckle" type shoe, like the one in the picture.

I've never seen buckles attached to Ghillie Brogues in real life, but there are vintage photos of older generation, (Victorian & Edwardian) , kilt wearers doing so. Maybe nowadays not many would notice the difference, to be honest. The Irish guards wear buckles attached to ordinary brogues via a plastic tongue that fixes under the laces.

To buy an actual pair of buckled brogues is a very expensive business....

Yes indeed, my dice hose are full length and I have been on the look out for bar and buckle brogues. Buying shoes without trying them (i.e. on the internet) is a much riskier prospect than a jacket and my budget for an item that I probably won't get much use out of is very small...

It seems like with a doublet, buckles are really the way to go. Attaching buckles to my secondhand ghillie brogues was my solution to having really dressy shoes. As you say, they are an older style but I have seen at least a few pictures of them in more recent times than the Edwardian era. Hopefully they don't seem too historical

Here is the thread about my buckle ghillie project with pictures and discussion:
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...ization-67462/

I think we have a trans-Alantic misunderstanding here. In UK terms Highland Clans are correct. The doublet is normally for formal white tie events and in this particular case, black tie events, whilst still formal, is less so.

...

For formal kilt day attire(morning coat equivalent) the black barathea, silver buttoned argyll fits the bill with a traditional tie. However the same argyll will get you by with modest adjustments to one's attire to the less formal black tie, evening events.

Thank you Jock, that really clears things up; I forgot that in more traditional dress codes white tie = formal and black tie = semi-formal! Comparable to how the black barathea Argyll can be dressed up or down, I imagine there would be some difference in how a Balmoral doublet would be worn for white or black tie?

Highland Clans suggests wearing it open for less formal (i.e. black tie), perhaps with nicely polished oxfords, black self-tie bow tie, waistcoat or waist plate belt (not both!), dress sporran, solid hose, fold down collar white formal shirt, etc.

For white tie I could wear it buttoned up like Rothesay, but with buckle ghillies because I don't have bar and buckle brogues. I might even be able to make better use of my dad's old horse hair sporran, which I have worn on occasion for black tie, but in retrospect may have been a bit over the top. Put all that together with diced or Argyle hose, black bow tie, and a wing collar shirt (though the Duke's is fold down collar?), and I'll be ready to do it up! Not that I have any upcoming white tie events... but "if you build it, they will come"