More Fun With eBay Mislabelling

[creagdhubh]

Very interesting, Scott. Thanks for sharing!

[Chas]

Interesting question - Rabbit or Seal - Seal or Rabbit?

I own a sealskin sporran and this one is a little bit hairier than all the sealskins I've seen. But by the same token it is certainly not as fluffy as all the rabbitskins I've seen.

To add a bit more information to the pot, this is the contact address of the vendor -

Business seller information
Kilts & Cashmere
Gurmale Singh
36 Gordon St
Glasgow
Scotland
Glasgow (City of)
G1 3PU
United Kingdom
Gurmale Singh 07872900430

Regards

Chas

[Tobus]

I thought the UK government okay'd a deal where the fur could be sourced from North American Inuit hunters...?

Hmm, maybe so. But with a "buy now" price of 35 quid, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that ain't seal skin. If it were acquired from Alaskan natives, it would have to cost waaaaay more than that.

There is no way this is rabbit. Rabbit is too fluffy, if you look at the individual hairs on this piece they are bristly and the hair is uniform (there is no guard hair & downy undercoat). If this isn't seal it is the best imitation I have ever seen.

ith:

Interesting observations. It may not be rabbit, but I'm going to stick to my proverbial guns and say it ain't seal either. I don't own a seal skin sporran, but I have two parkas, two sets of 'mukaluks', and an entire seal pelt that I inherited from my mother, acquired when she lived in Alaska in the 1960s. It may just be that these are older items, but they don't exhibit the same fluffiness that I see on that sporran. Perhaps there's a lot of variation in seal pelts, I dunno. But the seal skin I have in my possession just doesn't look the same as that sporran. To me, that sporran looks like some sort of fake seal skin. Since they're new and they're not advertising it as seal skin, pricing it at seal skin levels, or making any mention of specially-approved sources, I just can't see how it would possibly be seal skin.

I could be wrong, though! I often am!

[Chas]

I agree with Tobus. I think that they are bovine that has been dyed. When sealskin was in use there were a lot of 'looks like sealskin' sporrans around. But the dyed bovine just doesn't have the sheen of the original.

Regards

Chas

[artificer]

Interesting question - Rabbit or Seal - Seal or Rabbit?

I own a sealskin sporran and this one is a little bit hairier than all the sealskins I've seen. But by the same token it is certainly not as fluffy as all the rabbitskins I've seen.

Chas

I agree that the hair is a bit longer than what is common, but it does have that odd "glassiness" that seal hair has- the way light bounces through the individual hairs.
I put the length down to it possibly being a different species.

I can't think of any other type of fur that looks like that in the light.

Hmm, maybe so. But with a "buy now" price of 35 quid, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that ain't seal skin. If it were acquired from Alaskan natives, it would have to cost waaaaay more than that.

I'd agree that the price seems too good for seal. Now if they bought these on the cheap, and they didn't know what they were, and were trying to get rid of them, that might make sense.
The vendor doesn't list any seal in their offerings- all rabbit or horsehair (by which I'm assuming they mean "ponyhide" which is actually cow) .

Interesting observations. It may not be rabbit, but I'm going to stick to my proverbial guns and say it ain't seal either. I don't own a seal skin sporran, but I have two parkas, two sets of 'mukaluks', and an entire seal pelt that I inherited from my mother, acquired when she lived in Alaska in the 1960s. It may just be that these are older items, but they don't exhibit the same fluffiness that I see on that sporran. Perhaps there's a lot of variation in seal pelts, I dunno. But the seal skin I have in my possession just doesn't look the same as that sporran. To me, that sporran looks like some sort of fake seal skin. Since they're new and they're not advertising it as seal skin, pricing it at seal skin levels, or making any mention of specially-approved sources, I just can't see how it would possibly be seal skin.

I could be wrong, though! I often am!

When you're looking at the tassels and the gusset roll, you're seeing the fur poking out at odd directions which gives it the fluffy look. The body is fairly smooth.

Again, I can't say 100% for certain that it IS seal, but it certainly isn't like any rabbit/hare fur that I've ever seen, and it very closely resembles some vintage seal I've had in my hands right down to the golden colour with the light charcoal spots.

I'll say what I said before- if it isn't seal, it is the single best imitation of it that I've ever seen. And I'd like to know just where to get this imitation seal.

That said, and to paraphrase you- I could be wrong and often am.

ith:

[Downunder Kilt]

I don't think it is illegal to produce new seal skin sporrans from skins that were in stock prior to the cutt off date. Since sealskin was de rigueur for formal sporrans, then one would suspect there would have been a fair few completed ones in warehouses. I think there may well be many around for sale for some time yet

[Tobus]

I don't think it is illegal to produce new seal skin sporrans from skins that were in stock prior to the cutt off date. Since sealskin was de rigueur for formal sporrans, then one would suspect there would have been a fair few completed ones in warehouses. I think there may well be many around for sale for some time yet

Actually, I think your first statement is incorrect, though your second statement may be correct.

According to the official UK government website:

Skin, fur and other animal products which may not be commercially imported

Some skin and fur products may never be legally imported into the UK for commercial use.
Skins from harp and hooded seal pups

Commercial imports of baby harp seal and hooded seal skins - and items made from such skins - are prohibited.
Under EU regulations, the placing on the market of all seal products is banned. ‘Seal products’ means all products, either processed or unprocessed, deriving or obtained from seals, including meat, oil, blubber, organs, raw fur skins and fur skins, tanned or dressed, including fur skins assembled in plates, crosses and similar forms, and articles made from fur skins. The ban also applies to imports that are declared for free circulation in the EU and intra-community trade.
You are also not permitted to trade in new products manufactured from existing stock of seal skin. Trade (including hire) in seal products first placed on the market before 20 August 2010 is not affected, however you are not permitted to trade in new products manufactured from existing stock of seal skin.
The EU regulations prohibit placing on the market products from seals and other pinnipeds (ie seals, sea lions and walruses) unless:

• they result from traditional hunts conducted by Inuit and other indigenous communities and contribute to their subsistence
• are for personal use of travellers and their families and are of a non-commercial quantity
• result from hunts regulated under national law with the sole purpose of sustainable management of marine resources and where the products are marketed on a non-profit basis

Where a consignment of seal products are being imported for release to free circulation and either the Inuit or management of marine resource exemptions applies, a seal catch attestation certificate is required to accompany the goods. The attestation certificate should be endorsed by the relevant certifying authorities in the country of origin.

So, even if you had seal skins in stock before the ban, you cannot put them into circulation as finished products. The only way to still sell seal skin sporrans is if they had already been on the market before 2010. A business could probably argue that if they had a bunch of completed sporrans in a warehouse, they were already on the market before the ban. But any sporran made after 2010 that didn't come from Inuit (or other exempted) sources would be illegal to sell.

But again, anybody selling a seal skin sporran for 35 GBP either doesn't know what he has, or is trying to fly under the radar.

[Downunder Kilt]

Thanks for making that clearer Tobus, cheers

[ForresterModern]

There are most certainly a fair number of remaining sealskin sporrans out there on the market that presumably are pre-2010 or somehow otherwise exempt. Just do an eBay search for seal sporran and include worldwide sources and you will see a number of them from UK sources at around $100US, not that far from the $60 or so the one Artificer shows in his original post. If you just search sporran you will also see a number of what to my eye are fairly clearly sealskin sporrans listed but not called sealskin for whatever reason. Prices for them do not seem unreasonable either. I assume the leftovers are being cleared out by some vendors, and likely at relatively clearence prices by comparison to other traditional materials not specifically outlawed.

jf

[OC Richard]

Another obviously civilian sporran listed as "military". Not only is it civilian, but it's a child's sporran! (Or maybe for a tiny soldier...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hors...item2ec308e9f2