"New" Clan MacTavish Dress Tartan

[David Dubh]

I wonder? I wonder, if we have another trans-Atlantic divergence of definition going on here? To me and most in the UK "dress" means formal, so when I hear of a "dress" tartan which to me, at least, means a formal evening dress tartan, for men in a kilt form. For example the MacLeod of Lewis(loud MacLeod) is the "dress"(formal) tartan for MacLeod of Harris and has absolutely nothing to do with female attire as such.

Thoughts anyone?

N
Now I maybe wrong here Jock, but I was under the impression that "dress" tartans came about from Queen Victoria, that a red based tartans was improper for a lady to wear. So the predominantly red was changed to be more white "dress Stewart" was born and other clans followed suite. I also think that the designation of a dress tartan with the dominant white in it makes sense in most people's heads because as an everyday tartan to wear it would show and get dirty more readily. So dress may be a formal wear tartan that was created by a woman
David

[Tam Piperson]

The idea of a predominantly white tartan probably stems from surviving examples of Highland ladies' dress, most notably the arisaid, which was generally a length of woven fabric featuring a white background with a tartan pattern, as seen in the one woven by Christina Young in 1726:

[figheadair]

The idea of a predominantly white tartan probably stems from surviving examples of Highland ladies' dress, most notably the arisaid, which was generally a length of woven fabric featuring a white background with a tartan pattern, as seen in the one woven by Christina in 1726:

See my comments in #12. This 1726 blanket was intended for domestic use and not to wear as an Erraisaid.

[Tam Piperson]

See my comments in #12. This 1726 blanket was intended for domestic use and not to wear as an Erraisaid.

I see. It must have been this photo from a Scottish Tartans Museum display that gave me the impression that it was:

[figheadair]

I see. It must have been this photo from a Scottish Tartans Museum display that gave me the impression that it was:

Using something in a particular way to demonstrate a concept does not necessarily mean that that was the original use of that piece. Similarly, putting a kilt on a museum manikin the wrong way around doesn't mean that's how kilts were worn then.



In the case of the CY blanket there is no evidence that it was ever worn, nor is its weight or structure consistent with its use as clothing.

[figheadair]

I've never been a fan of the white-based dress/airsaid/dance tartans. The red MacTavish tartan is quite striking though, and the blue Thompson tartan is very lovely as a dress tartan, and the brown hunting MacTavish is handsome as well. I can't say the same for this new dancer's tartan however.

Arisaid and dress tartans are similar but not the same. The latter have their origins in the former but true arisaid setts have their origins in domestic blanket setts and allegedly women's wear. They were not white versions of clan tartans, which of course didn't exist in the C18th, but something completely different as can be seen from the examples in Figs 8 and 9 here. The exception to this difference is possibly what is now called Dress MacPherson which may originally actually have been a blanket pattern.

N
Now I maybe wrong here Jock, but I was under the impression that "dress" tartans came about from Queen Victoria, that a red based tartans was improper for a lady to wear. So the predominantly red was changed to be more white "dress Stewart" was born and other clans followed suite. I also think that the designation of a dress tartan with the dominant white in it makes sense in most people's heads because as an everyday tartan to wear it would show and get dirty more readily. So dress may be a formal wear tartan that was created by a woman
David

Dress setts were not invented by Queen Victoria but did come about during her early reign and seem to have been the invention of the Sobieski Stuarts although they did not use the term 'dress'. They included a white version of the (Royal) Stuart which they called 'Victoria', presumably to curry favour with the establishment that they aspired to join.

[Dixiecat]

Arisaid and dress tartans are similar but not the same. The latter have their origins in the former but true arisaid setts have their origins in domestic blanket setts and allegedly women's wear. They were not white versions of clan tartans, which of course didn't exist in the C18th, but something completely different as can be seen from the examples in Figs 8 and 9 here. The exception to this difference is possibly what is now called Dress MacPherson which may originally actually have been a blanket pattern.



Dress setts were not invented by Queen Victoria but did come about during her early reign and seem to have been the invention of the Sobieski Stuarts although they did not use the term 'dress'. They included a white version of the (Royal) Stuart which they called 'Victoria', presumably to curry favour with the establishment that they aspired to join.

Thank you Peter.

The misinformation about white based tartans out on the web and even promulgated by some members here is astounding. It's good to have your voice on the subject.