"New" Clan MacTavish Dress Tartan

[MacGumerait]

"Dress" has become, at least in some circles, the term used to describe tartans with white fields most often worn by Highland dancers. A perusal of "Dress" clan tartan listings will bear this out. Our small clan has not had an official dress tartan for over 150 years, so MacTavish (and many Thompson) girls have had to choose another clan's tartan for competition. Our Chief has remedied that, with my thanks on the girls' behalf.

David , I like this tartan , I will have to admit that some dress tartans don't appeal to my eye and some do , ( just personal preference) but I do like this one .

Also , I get where you are coming from . You are letting us know that Clan MacTavish now has a dress tartan which was approved by the Clan Chief .

The fact that dancers often wear " dress tartans " was just a side note . MacTavish dancers now have a choice .

Other than that , I don't think there was a " trans-Atlantic divergence of definition " .

It didn't appear to me that you misunderstood the definition of " dress tartan " . Only pointing out that the MacTavish Clan now has a " dress tartan " and that it can be used by dancers if desired .

You can rest easy Jock , I don't think there is a muddle here .

[Jock Scot]

David , I like this tartan , I will have to admit that some dress tartans don't appeal to my eye and some do , ( just personal preference) but I do like this one .

Also , I get where you are coming from . You are letting us know that Clan MacTavish now has a dress tartan which was approved by the Clan Chief .

The fact that dancers often wear " dress tartans " was just a side note . MacTavish dancers now have a choice .

Other than that , I don't think there was a " trans-Atlantic divergence of definition " .

It didn't appear to me that you misunderstood the definition of " dress tartan " . Only pointing out that the MacTavish Clan now has a " dress tartan " and that it can be used by dancers if desired .

You can rest easy Jock , I don't think there is a muddle here .

Why is it that I am not convinced? But we shall see.

In passing, I quite accept that tartan, certainly any tartan that I can think of, can and is used for a multitude of purposes and I am the first to admit that the ladies do look splendid in their tartan dancing outfits.

[MacRobert's Reply]

I remain confused about the definition of a “dress tartan”. Growing up in Scotland in the 50’s the term “dress tartan” in my family referred to this red Robertson, which was generally worn at formal events:



In contrast to this "hunting" tartan, which was generally for day wear:



However the Scottish Register of Tartans lists this as “Robertson dress Hunting”:



The registration notes say: "Scottish Tartans Society calls this a 'Dress Hunting'. Other suggestion is that it is a Dalgliesh 'Dancers' Fancy'. See also #539 (original Scottish Tartans Authority reference) which it closely resembles."

Now I am even more confused!:?

So my question is this: does the term “dress” when applied to a tartan refer to one generally worn for formal events or to a tartan with a white field or to a tartan primarily for highland dancers? Or is there general confusion that we just have to live with?

(PS I seem to have attached a thumbnail that I can't delete)

[M. A. C. Newsome]

MacRobert,

Calling a tartan a "dress" tartan does not imply that it is meant for formal wear. It generally refers to a tartan which has much more white in the design (though there are exceptions). Indeed, one could wear the Hunting Robertson to a formal event just as readily as the red Robertson tartan.

The STM has this handy little sheet available for download and photocopy which deals with these confusing tartan terms.
http://scottishtartans.org/downloads...eet_colors.pdf

[creagdhubh]

MacRobert,

Calling a tartan a "dress" tartan does not imply that it is meant for formal wear. It generally refers to a tartan which has much more white in the design (though there are exceptions). Indeed, one could wear the Hunting Robertson to a formal event just as readily as the red Robertson tartan.

The STM has this handy little sheet available for download and photocopy which deals with these confusing tartan terms.
http://scottishtartans.org/downloads...eet_colors.pdf

***

And much of the decision of which particular colour scheme of tartan to wear, say for a formal event, can largely depend upon clan traditions - just as it is in the case of the Clan Macpherson. The majority of men and women amongst the Clan Macpherson, prefer to wear the Macpherson 'dress' tartan for black-tie events, yet it is perfectly acceptable to wear any of the other Macpherson tartans, and many do.

Cheers,

[David Thorpe]

Why is it that I am not convinced? But we shall see.

I believe that is a question which only you can answer, Jock. Best of luck with that.

There are many instances of Scots in the colonies and elsewhere dispersed doing things slightly differently than they are done in the Highlands. This very forum contains a plethora of discussions of examples. Due to many factors such as climatic and general cultural differences, this stands to reason. I am not convinced that these differences always constitute a "muddle", nor any particular problem.

I am no expert, to be sure, but I believe that here in the US, in at least some competitions, dancers are required to wear "dress" tartans, at least for any kind of serious consideration. I have no idea whether this rule applies at competitions in Scotland. The girls of our small clan have had to heretofore wear the "dress" tartan of another clan in order to compete. Our Chief has remedied that situation, with my gratitude.

With sincere respect for your expertise, experience, willingness to share them and tolerance for occasional disagreement, I will now hunt down my roll of duct tape and attempt to close this big can of worms.

[Dixiecat]

I believe that is a question which only you can answer, Jock. Best of luck with that.

There are many instances of Scots in the colonies and elsewhere dispersed doing things slightly differently than they are done in the Highlands. This very forum contains a plethora of discussions of examples. Due to many factors such as climatic and general cultural differences, this stands to reason. I am not convinced that these differences always constitute a "muddle", nor any particular problem.

I am no expert, to be sure, but I believe that here in the US, in at least some competitions, dancers are required to wear "dress" tartans, at least for any kind of serious consideration. I have no idea whether this rule applies at competitions in Scotland. The girls of our small clan have had to heretofore wear the "dress" tartan of another clan in order to compete. Our Chief has remedied that situation, with my gratitude.

As for highland dancing, here in the 'colonies' we don't do anything different than they do in Scotland and your assumption that dancers in the US are required to wear dress tartans is completely wrong. All dancers who compete under the auspices of the SOBHD (Scottish Official Board of Highland Dance) follow their dress code which states that the dancer (both male and female) should wear ANY clan, family or district tartan. The SOBHD is the only recognized highland dance organization for any competing dancer in North America and most dancers in Scotland and the rest of the dancers in Scotland who dance under SOHDA follow the same dress code.

Dancers are only required to wear a tartan kilt. White-based tartans have become the norm, but only in the last 20years.

[David Thorpe]

Thank you for that information. I (wrongly) assumed that white-based tartans were required, since the overwhelming majority of girls wear them. If not a rule per se, is this not a de facto standard nonetheless? I suppose a beauty pageant contestant could wear black lipstick, but would it not likely effectively bar her from consideration for a win?

[Dixiecat]

Thank you for that information. I (wrongly) assumed that white-based tartans were required, since the overwhelming majority of girls wear them. If not a rule per se, is this not a de facto standard nonetheless? I suppose a beauty pageant contestant could wear black lipstick, but would it not likely effectively bar her from consideration for a win?

No, it's not even a 'de facto' standard. It's any clan, district or family tartan. No judge would EVER consider marking down or disqualifying any dancer with a non-white based tartan. That would go against the very tradition and heart of highland dance.

[Mark Stephenson]

No, it's not even a 'de facto' standard. It's any clan, district or family tartan. No judge would EVER consider marking down or disqualifying any dancer with a non-white based tartan. That would go against the very tradition and heart of highland dance.

Last night at our local St. Andrew's Ball, I asked a well-known Highland Dance judge about what is required. She confirmed that while a "dress tartan" is NOT required, there is a rather strong convention regarding the wear of a "dress tartan". Persons who choose not to wear a "dress tartan" would definitely stand out - which would not necessarily be a good thing or a bad thing.