Will Catherine be Queen?

[Drac]

Kate would then become Princess of Wales when William become Prince of Wales.

Assuming that Elizabeth doesn't outlive Charles

Jim

[McClef]

Assuming that Elizabeth doesn't outlive Charles

Jim

I was of course dealing with what would be the expected normal course of events that parents do not outlive their offspring.

Bren - it does not work like a US company. Until recently our monarchical system worked upon "male preference primogeniture" and although this has now changed it does not apply to any of the royal family living at the time of the change, only to new borns following the change.

The eldest male child of the Sovereign was therefore the Heir Apparent even should they have an older sister who could only even be Heir Presumptive and who could be displaced should a younger brother appear.

If you read the constitutional arguments made at the time of the Abdication, it was clear that a Morganatic marriage was not acceptable and that whoever married the King would become by right and title, Queen Consort. Wallis Simpson was rejected by the country on that basis, they would not accept her married to the King with a lesser title and because she was divorced she was not considered acceptable as Queen. Times may have changed but if Camilla has been accepted as Charles' wife by the country then as such she has the right to be Queen in name.

I would take bets on it.

[Drac]

I was of course dealing with what would be the expected normal course of events that parents do not outlive their offspring.

I just wonder if Charles will abdicate to allow William to take the throne since he is far from a spring chicken.

Just speculation of an American who knows very little of the intricacies of British monarchy. What I know if from Amy, who does know it very well, but finds teaching to be not something she is overly fond of even if the student is her slow witted husband

Jim

[McClef]

I pointed out in another thread that this is no such thing as automatic abdication which required both an instrument of abdication and an act of Parliament.

It is unknown, outside of the special circumstances of Edward VIII, when there was no heir of his in any case and he had not been anointed and crowned, for this to occur. It is considered to be a sacred trust bestowed by God, upon the person who becomes, by right and inheritance, the Monarch. So sacred, that even in the case of permanent incapacity, such as that of George III, they remain the Monarch in name and position, although the duties are then discharged by a Regent.

The only nation that I know of where Monarchs do step down as a matter of course is the Netherlands.

[Pleater]

I've corrected Catherine in the title.

It has been usual for the wife of a king to be titled Queen, but it would be usual for the wife of a Prince to be a princess, which in the case of Charles and Camilla has not been the case.

The mother of our present Queen was 'Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother' - not counted as a queen, but if Charles becomes King it will have to be decided then what title Camilla will use. Possibly Dowager Duchess but Charles' marriage is setting a new precedent, so the title will have to be sorted out as and when necessary.

In the course of time Catherine should take the title Queen, but she would not become monarch as she is not in the line of succession.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[sailortats]

I think that Camilla should become queen when Charles ascends the throne. It is obvious from all the pics you see of them together that he is radiantly happy having her as his wife. If being divorced does not stop Charles from becoming king, and it certainly won't, then being divorced should not stop Camilla from becoming queen.
Just my 2 American cents

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I've corrected Catherine in the title.

It has been usual for the wife of a king to be titled Queen, but it would be usual for the wife of a Prince to be a princess, which in the case of Charles and Camilla has not been the case.

This was a decision taken jointly by HRH Prince Charles and (as she was then) Camilla Parker-Bowles and approved by Her Majesty prior to their wedding.

The mother of our present Queen was 'Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother' - not counted as a queen...

Actually, until the death of her husband, HM King George VI, she was styled as Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. On February 6, 1952, her daughter HRH Princess Elizabeth assumed the crown as Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Because of the similarity of names, the former queen (now a dowager) took the title Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.

...but if Charles becomes King it will have to be decided then what title Camilla will use.

She will use the title Her Majesty Queen Camilla.

Possibly Dowager Duchess but Charles' marriage is setting a new precedent, so the title will have to be sorted out as and when necessary.

A "dowager" is the widow of a deceased titled nobleman, ie: the dowager Marchioness of Brighton; this is a rather archaic distinction and not often encountered in common modern usage. As far as sorting out HRH The Duchess of Cornwall's title when her husband becomes king, these things were well and truly sorted out before they were married in the unlikely event that Her Majesty should die either before or immediately after her son's marriage.

In the course of time Catherine should take the title Queen, but she would not become monarch as she is not in the line of succession.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Quite correct. Her step-son William would (presumably) ascend the throne as His Majesty King William V, and his wife would become Her Majesty Queen Catherine. Her Majesty Queen Camilla would retain both the style (HM) and title (queen) that she enjoyed during the lifetime of her husband, the late king.

[John_Carrick]

The lawful wife of an incoming king automatically becomes queen, and this will happen to Kate (good thing too!).
Special arrangements have been made for Camilla, using the title Duchess of Cornwall, and I think this has been wise and has helped her to become accepted and reasonably popular, whereas if she had become Princess of Wales an uncomfortable comparison would be made with the late Princess of Wales. In my view she would be well accepted by the country as Queen Camilla, but they have clearly decided this won't happen when Charles becomes king.
John

[McClef]

When Charles becomes King both the Prime Minister and Archbishop of Canterbury of the day will announce that there is no objection, and indeed no legal obstacle why Camilla may not be styled or crowned as Queen.

No objections were raised by either occupant of these posts at the time of the marriage. In the case of Edward VIII it was entirely different as both Stanley Baldwin and Cosmo Gordon Laing voiced not only their objections in advance but Baldwin threatened resignation on the issue and Laing that he would refuse to crown either Edward or Wallis.

The talk of "Princess Consort" is sheer flummery and it will suddenly be found that constitutionally such a title would both contravene the spirit of the constitution and not be practical. The lawful wife of the King (and Camilla has been officially accepted as such by the establishment) can only be a Queen Consort. The only thing that could prevent this is if Charles should die before his mother and hence not become King.

[Pleater]

Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten married Princess Elizabeth, having renounced his titles as Prince of Greece and of Denmark, having converted to the Anglican church from the Greek Orthodox, and become a naturalised citizen of Britain and taken the surname of Mountbatten, that of his maternal grandparents.

When he married he was granted 'the style' HRH, and was given the title of Duke of Edinburgh, but there was a gap in his being a Royal Highness which was just a little longer than the period of his engagement.

At least that is what Wikipaedia says, and I am fairly sure that is what happened.

Anne the Pleater :ootd: